Final Fantasy XIV and the Community went to war today and the results are not pretty, and this wasn’t our best day, or our better selves.
Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscussion/comments/umxm3h/this_is_not_the_time_to_hide_mods_quite_the/ and https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscussion/comments/umhvfc/we_put_se_and_yoshi_in_a_very_difficult_position/
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I'm just going to keep using mods. I don't cheat. And I pay for the game, they don't pay me. I'm poking all the bears. I want all that smoke. My youtube name is my FFXIV account name. Report me lol
The fact that Xeno and even Zepla were over-reacting and literally taking Yoshi-P out of context when he absolutely said to not do that is severely disappointing to me. I expect better of these people.
It doesn't at all warrant any sort of harassment (be they streamers with those takes or people calling for large-scale bans of mod users), only talking about their bad takes, nothing more.
Import WoW, BECOME WoW😂😂
i play ff14 on a launch year ps4, and the game play's well and looks great. i really dont understand ppl who are addicted to mods, aka those who need mods to play a game. perhaps they should try playing on older hardware and see where im coming from. i seriously do not understand what the fuss is all about, just follow the TOS to the letter and you wont get banned. guess ppl are just greedy.
I know it’s happened in the past but streamers should know better than too openly Stream with mods/plugs publicly and FFXIV players should also know better than to go hunting for people to report. People going around as the mod police mass reporting and the same people will tell you “FFXIV Community isn’t toxic” we’re toxic as shit just in a different way
I've never used mods. I found the UI great and over the years they just made it better.
In WoW I had so many mods. But I've never felt ffxiv needed it. I've seen posts about them but never gave it much thought.
I'm sad it's causing a rift in the community though. I've always felt that the ffxiv community was one of the best out of all the MMOs I've played (especially during HW days).
I hope this conflict doesn't last and some sort of solution comes up that keeps everyone happy.
Putting all the mods and takes on whether they should be allowed or not, it's truly heartbreaking for me to see this happening in what is such a special and wonderful community of a special and wonderful game. I came back to FF14 around Fall of 2021. And after getting back into the swing of things, what kept me coming back to FF14 was the community. Every time I hop on, I always have such a pleasant and fun experience with the people who enjoy this game. In such a short time, I've met so many new wonderful friends and have made so many fun new memories on this game. I'm 28 now, and not only do I not have as much time and energy to spend on games like I used to, but I'm also much less tolerant of the kind of negative stuff you find in most other online games. So for me, FF14 has been such a gift. And seeing all this disgusting, toxic nonsense happening is just so disappointing. I'm right there with you Brian. Now as far as the my take on the core issue of all this, as someone who does use plug-ins, g-shade, whatever, I'd be more then happy to cut it all out if it meant keeping everything healthy and working as intended. They are undoubtedly handy, but they're not worth causing such toxicity and hatred over. The game is as beloved as it is for a reason, and if you cut all the plug-ins out, it's still that same wonderful experience, just lacking some very helpful tools some plug-ins do provide. Thank you for making this video Brian, and like I've said in prior comments, thank you for doing what you can to open a discussion with others. It's way more then what most people would do. Hopefully this all blows over sooner rather then later.
YoshiP doesnt want to go through the list of every single 3rd party add on and decide that this one is ok, this one is not etc.. so he just lumped everything. It's like how Airlines just say no electronics during take off and landing. Not all electronics interfere with navigation but going through all of them one by one is impossible.
They will not ban you for random 3rd party add on that only does cosmetic changes
As a raider there are many failings on 14's part when it comes to the ui. WoW is not much better. Both really need something like WeakAuras. Just a better way see to cooldowns. I play zoomed out from miles away. My buttons are 1 inch by one inch at the bottom of my screen.
I enjoy playing music at my friends house while they decorate. I love that there's a tool that plays music for you. Half the bards that play music in towns are using the same tool.
Its sad players are ruining others time. It feels like a petulant child that's just jealous.
Act isn't that bad. The cactbot addon is. At the end of the day your only taking away from your own skill.
Noone knows my ingame name and I don't stream my 3 hour fail sessions so :p.
Today was a glorious day. Finally the children were punished. They are acting like a kid who's parent took away the candy they were never supposed to have. I saw this coming ever since they decided not to ban people for the blue mage exploit.
Yoshi literally said as long as you're discrete it'd be fine but did they listen? Nooooi
So I should never stream FFXIV content because I'll get my account banned. 🙁
To me this is kinda scary. The only mods that I use are asthetic and as a role player, a large part of my characters are only possible because of them. All little things like darker horns/scales, removing the crown from the succubus horns etc.
I don't find these types of small visual changes or reshade to be a threat, but I can understand the concern over tools that give advantages over those who don't use them.
people who use third party extensions know that is against the terms which they agreed to when they created a ffxiv account, its just there are some extremely stupid people who think nothing will ever happen to them when in truth we have gotten stories like these many times over of people banned for breaking ToS because of them not thinking its a big deal an that there is no police force to punish them for it when in fact there is and Yoshida himself issued a warning already and now he's issuing it again more sternly, if you are reported you will be penalized an risk losing your account,
if people would just listen the first time there would be no need for the task force team to take additional steps to further punish it.
and look its not like the devs hate every single plugin either they are not stupid or blind they know exactly whats possible with their engine, their code, and their game files. if some one wants to inhance the graphics? cool no sweat and guess what the devs agree thats a good idea they are planning to overhaul the game's graphics themselves cause they see their is alot of interest in that an we'll see the fruits of their labours starting in 7.0
viera and hrothgar dson't have enough options for hats and hair they are blatantly aware of that and made an attempt to introduce more for that group of players but as you can see their was so much controversy over that cause of "muh ears" rather than calmly just saying "hey thanks for giving us more stuff but could you maybe let us keep our ears too? we definitely see where you were going with this but please understand we want to be able to have our ears stay put similar to another playable race you have already given to us thank you."
they know full well modders have al;ready worked a pace ahead of them giving this group more options but they added more things anyways as a show of good faith that they haven't forgotten bout those players.
This is just such a sad video. Poor guy. I hope things get better for you.
0:00 – 4:12 made it sound like there was some sort of terrorist attack or something. Like the 9/11 of events happened in FF.
That being said it's very obvious (and I don't really care about streamers) BUT it's very obvious that people are targeting Streamers using addons to get them banned is an abuse of the reporting system.
I don't use mods I've never used anything to alter the game in anyway shape or form but the Rules need to be enforced as they are written for everyone we cannot just make exception because of popularity it isn't fair, for the time being I'd reccomend these people to simply not use the addons while streaming.
People should be patient and make requests and the FF team will eventually make the game better to match what you want. The team has shown consistently they have listened to players and even now are taking stock of what people use the most so they can add it to the game. It's a sorry state of affairs just bare with it. Things will change for the better.
I play on ps5 and I wish there were mods just for ui so u can have it the way u like the cd timers/ buff timers to make them bigger the ui interface as good as it is could be better
People have to accept the terms of use and being blunt the streamers also.
Making out the whole player base of ff14 is concered or upset is bs.
Note on 7:10 – Yes, the FFXIV team could technically use EAC or some other kernel-level anti-cheat, like many other popular online games are using.
As someone who plays/has played many games that use EAC, I have a STRONG suspicion that the reason the FFXIV team does not seem to want to use it, is at least in part because of how touchy it is with heavy resource usage/slowdown depending on implementation. Case in point: the EAC implementation on both New World and Lost Ark have major issues on many PC configurations with being very slow to start up and hogging resources while the game is running, likely because AGS' devs didn't take the time to implement it properly in their games (or maybe they couldn't, in the case of Lost Ark, which relies on other anti-cheat methods in other regions).
Depending on how FFXIV is architected, adding EAC or a kernel-level anticheat could result in a heavily degraded experience for many players, to say nothing of the software's invasiveness.
Bottom line: **The fact that Yoshi-P keeps saying the FFXIV team "cannot" install detection software on our PC's should be taken by FFXIV's player base as a gesture of goodwill on his part. The man is not asking for us to not use/abuse third-party software without first giving quite a bit in our favor, up front, by refusing to have his team sacrifice time that could be spent on making our game better to instead implement invasive anti-cheat solutions to force the issue.**
"You really don't know what someone is going through" is always always always a good thing to remind oneself of.
I feel like tension around this issue has been simmering since Limit Max's group fully embraced addons. Max used them a lot, talked about them a lot, and people had divided reactions. At the time, many warned against streaming with them but….nothing happened.
Obviously the conversation about addons has been around forever, but I can't remember seeing them streamed so blatantly before. And for some, Yoshi-P's letter and then the streamer bans released the dam.
I'm not saying I agree with the mass reporting. Or the endless bad takes. But it feels like this was going to have to be addressed at some point, and SE made the mistake of letting it fester for too long.
I genuinely do not understand what the huge fuss is, this has always been the TOS, they literally said they were basically trying to be lenient as long as it didn't interrupt the game but now we have issues with cheating literally within the week of them revamping PvP and now people are acting surprised and mad because they actually have to follow the rules? A lot of the streamers were already blatantly ignoring Yoshida warning them, he flat out said, if you don't show it or promote it and it only affects you, then we're very unlikely to care, but streaming with addons is literally the exact opposite of being discreet. Sadly, this is what happens, we had a player boom and that also brings a lot more bad actors which is finally pushing it over the edge. I love mods but I get not wanting to take loads of resources to try and figure out what is and isn't ok that could be going into actual content so the blanket enforcement makes total sense and should not be surprising with all the complaints of cheaters and bots lately. All the little add ons add up, everyone complains about WoW being a mandatory add on fest and this is another thing they are trying to avoid. No one is going to ban some random person for modding their move animations on their personal computer, but if you stream with it, you probably will, it's always been like that but it's much harder when there are as many players as there are now. I think people are being very extreme just like the last time the TOS was updated. Also the witch hunts are pathetic, if you use the TOS as a weapon against streamers you don't like, you need to get a life.
i've had death recap cause a lot of times i have no clue what the F killed me and pretty loading screens as it takes a good 10s or more of stareing at them whenever i zone (some days/times longer) but i've avoided streaming because of it…
This has been coming for a long time. The development team cannot have their cake and eat it too. PC players are used to higher standards with MMOs, and if they want to move further away from being an MMO, so be it. They will continue to lose community faith as they chase an audience who doesn't play their game. The TOS is unpoliceable, unfeasible and doesn't reflect the nature of the game.
The community deserved to implode; people should not remove add-ons, and the development team needs to pull their finger out and act like the SAAS org they are and get things out in a 1-3 month cycle instead of a 3-10 yr cycle because even with this graphical update it will still be a downgrade compared to Gshade.
The community is a collection of consumers, not a moral religious cult of positivity that has to treat others with respect because they exist. They pay for a product; the product is severely lacking in something which should have been implemented years ago. The most recent expansion and the patch are a downgrade, and telling them to play another game doesn't fix the issue.
In FF14 I have never seen a need for mods or cheats, yeah I'm no super expert at PVE or PVP.
But in the brief time I played WOW to 40, or when I play OSRS to escape to my younger days. I used clients or mods, Runelite for OSRS and a bunch of mods for WOW just to enjoy it for a tiny bit that I played.
I personally feel that yes, people are on a witch hunt just to attack content creators because they got hit by the ban hammer before others that are popular did. Now I don't think mods for shading or even the lewd mods are bad, what I think is bad is the ones that call out boss attacks ahead of time or the ones that PVP cheaters are using.
All I feel right now is a small amount of sadness that people are divided and attacking each other, but that won't stop me from enjoying FF14. Hopefully others will grow up and only call out cheaters, please have a good rest of your day.
This should apply to everyone. No more excuses. The gamers did this to themselves and the gamers are the reason that are killing the game. It sucks but I'm just going to hit forums and encourage devs to place the the anti cheat. Yoshi-P has said this many times. Plus some content creators need to watch they say about devs. It's sad but like you said stop poking the bear.
From a personal stand point I say this. I have played MMOs on console my whole life. If it wasn't on console, I didn't play it. I can't mod on console. As long as no one was cheating with it, I didn't care. That is still my stance. Don't cheat. Have fun. If the mods don't cause cheating… don't expect me to be the one to wag my finger. If the mods don't cause harrassment … I say leave it to the fun factor. But, I just play. I'm no person of interest.
The witch hunting thats gone on today has completely vindicated every wow players critique of the faux positive community. and vindicated them in the most explosive way possible. I blame the community for not being able to act like adults, and I also blame yoshi-p for his wish-washy enforcement of addons, as well as his tacit approval of the witch hunts as his staff actions accounts the community points a gun at. Special shout out to the JP side of the community for starting it all, you truly are the best of the best.
Trying to get the games biggest advocates banned is not a win.
A shameful display on all sides.
We've seen what allowing add ons does to a game. The game itself is ends up balanced around it and make it so add on are required in the end.
DO NOT USE ADD ONS IN PUDLIC, the end. It's really not that hard.
This is a pot that has been boiling for a long time now, and now that it's boiled over I don't think it's going to stop any time soon. The community has always had a "nice" appearance looking from the outside-in, but if you looked at its heart this is what's always been there. The game has had a lot of good times until now, but it's hit that first rough spot that long term MMOs go through. WoW's first rough spot was Cataclysm. For XIV, it's the combined factors of the mass WoW exodus, the gradual change of the game away from what it was in 2.0, and the community's constant self-aggrandizement. For a long time now the community has been patting itself on the back for their self-perceived virtue(aka not being toxic), but the sad reality is that the community is just toxic differently. Combined with the game being gradually changed into something that is completely unrecognizable from the original game, with a sudden influx of a new foreign culture and this pot was set to explode like a 1000 pounds of TNT in a pressure cooker.
The sad result of all this is that the community is now having a massive public explosion of toxicity and showing that it really does have a rather sizeable dark side. This dark side has been shown before in brief flashes, but this is by far the most outwardly facing display of it so far. Given that there is still a large amount of fuel left to burn I don't think the fires from this explosion are going to stop until it has massively changed the XIV community. Up next on the burn pile YoshiP, the Devs, SE, and all of their questionable design choices followed up by even more petty squabbling over as of yet unforeseen issues.
BAN THEM ALL streamers are just as toxic as the mass reporters. BUT the reporters are technically following the rules. People ganging up on the devs just because THEY HAVE BEEN BREAKING THE RULES is SHITTY AND DESERVES PUNISHMENT. If only a portion of the community can use 3rd party apps. And then they defend it like they are being attacked like they did nothing wrong. BAN EM
The brigading/witch-hunting is unacceptable, and people like that is making the community look like trash. That's the kinda shit we do NOT want in the community. Straight up. I can't believe it's come to that.
As far ss how I think about the policies themselves, I think they're fine. They want to discourage the use of triggers and cactbot, auto-markers, along with other obvious tools that would give you an advantage, and I understand that, and I think that's fine. But when it comes to non-harmful add-ons, like UI improvements, I think they should've issued warnings first. Like "Hey, we are going to add UI improvements to the game, but for now, we discourage the use of these mods. Please stop using them, or we will ban you". It could have been a public statement, but instead, they went straight to banning people with no warnings, when they have not done so previously.
It's the sudden shift that I think I taking people off guard, and I do think Square is in the wrong for that.
But my main issue is with all the toxic assholes showing up in the community now. Nobody wants that here, if you're going to be like that, go elsewhere. As far as I'm concerned, brigading and witch-hunting is not welcome, nor is harassment of any kind. Even towards people who are using, or are defending the use of add-ons.
If we're going to have this discussion, it needs to be civil. It's so sad and disappointing to see this.
………This has honestly been the first time I’ve seen the ff14 community become p*ssed.