Quazii react to FF14 discussion thread on how the story quality is blown out of proportion in Final Fantasy XIV.
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link to thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscussion/comments/yplxx6/do_you_feel_like_the_ffxiv_storys_quality_is/
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Disagree with that statement. I played hundreds upon hundres of games & this is by far the best story I ever experienced in gaming. ShB & EW eclipsed even the games which I had heavy nostalgia & rose-tinted glasses for. I also experienced FFXIV in only a few months, all the way from ARR to EW. So I wouldn't even say it's necessary about "years of investment" since for me, it still eclipsed any game I was invested in for years previously & it did it instantly after ShB & then solidified it with EW. I also agree about music, but it's important to state that not all of FFXIV music is made by Soken. There's a lot of people involved. Answers & Dragonson are by Uematsu. Even after Uematsu, many composers are involved in other tracks, like Hades' theme, etc…
Remember what zenos said ? "I want no succor but satisfaction" that's what you find playing FFXIV
Everyone has an opinion and that opinion is valid for them. How 'Good' the story of FF14 is will be subjective for the most part and it is those subjective elements which end up being most important. Sure, there are more objective analysis of the storywriting method, but most peoples opinions are driven by how they feel playing the experiance, not a critical annalysis of the writers technique. Basicly, in the end, weither FF14 is one of the best stories you have ever experianced will end up depending a lot on you. In a lot of people's cases, it seems to be that FF14 is.
Blown out of proportion????? I think this dude play to many mobile games or hollow games in general
In Japanese scriptwriting they use a writing technique called "Kishoutenketsu" which you can describe as "Introduction, Development, Twist & Conclusion", and this is a technique that's often used in Manga, Anime & Movies in Japan, and it's also used in FFXIV. Ki – introduction of new characters, new settings, new environments etc. Shou – the characters develop, and the story set up their plot devices. Ten – this is the twist, here's the main action and where the plot thickens, and where everything is revealed. Ketsu – the conclusion of the arc or the story, here's where it slows down and everything settles down.
I will say that the story does take ALOT of investment, it does pay off BIG time. Idk a single person who didn't almost or straight up cried when close the distance fully came up. The entire journey hits you at once.
I do know the entire story trope of the endwalker storyline ending. (In fact it is used in many JRPG endings to the point I literally called out the entire ending before the true climax even happened), but just because the story did not surprise one bit does not mean that the payoff was not worth it. The amount of emotions put into this story were phenomenal and it seperates itself from the average JRPG despite using the same tropes.
I for one will be happy for a hard reset. There is literally no way the Shadowbringers or Endwalker story will get bested. They will do their best to give us a 8/10 minimum for sure, but we need to temper our expectations for the next expansion. There are good stories to tell even in times with a lack of super major distress.
Considering it’s the only worthwhile meaningful thing to do in ff14 I wouldn’t say it’s blown out of proportion. All other content is entirely optional.
The story beats are not earth shattering on paper. The totality of how it grows and tells its story is, though. It’s something only a game can give you, and only one that lets you share the big moments with real people as you take on bosses and dungeons and overcome overwhelming odds together. It’s its own thing.
I think there is a very important difference between something being objectively "the best" vs being a favorite. People tend to try to justify their like for something by claiming it is the best while it doesn't really correlate.
Heavensward is still my favorite FFXIV expansion. I have never emotionally left HW is what I always say even though the story in both SHB and EW is better and I have no problem admitting it. The emotional aspect hit harder for me on HW, but I can distinguish that it is because the scope being more "intimate" spoke more to me than maybe the cosmic scale and stakes of SHB and EW and that aspect resonating more with me. (My love for Emet Selch knows no bounds though).
Same as outside 14, I can honestly say that FFVI is the best FF, but my favorite will forever be FFVII cos no other FF resonates the way 7 does for me. For this person, HW resonated more and that's fine, but I think the urge to justify that feeling is what prompts posts like these.
I actually kind of agree. I liked Shadowbringers, Stormblood has pacing issues, and I did not like ARR. When I first finished Endwalker I did like it but it's one of those stories that age poorly over time. Aside from the scion bit which actually I did not mind, the villains were used a bit clumsily and some parts of the story did not tie together well. Zenos goes through this big setup to use Anima and body swap with the warrior of light only to just give up and run away. Nothing in Endwalker has consequences that matter. Zodiark is loose? That is okay. The final days put into the world into apocalypse? Besides a few minor moments that is also okay. The end of the ancients? Don't worry about it. Garlemald? I can buy a few moments like that but imo there were too many moments like that in Endwalker. Instead of tying things up properly, a lot of stuff was chucked under a rug for the player to move onto the next story segments. That's why imo the standalone story feels a bit disjointed and it relies kind of too heavily on callbacks from previous expansions, especially towards the end.
Compare that to Shadowbringers where people did have personal stakes in what was going on so what happened did matter. For the wol to not become a sineater, Ardbert had to sacrifice himself, the world visibly changed from defeating the sin eaters, Emet cared very deeply about what was going on, etc. There was enough where things did matter that imo made it a twist kind of that Graha came back instead of Endwalker where it was kind of expected that everyone would be okay which… in a setting where the story is the apocalypse is a bit weird.
For me its dialog. As you said the story, reduced to its most basic parts are nothing special. Probably. But so is every other story in the world. What matters to me is the execution. Music, animations etc are big part of that ofcourse but dialog is what elevates it all for me.
I will go to spoilers now. Just remember Urianger and Moenbrydas parent scene. Dialog was incredible. Other example: "Crystal Exarch defeats Elidibus" on paper is simple story statement. But how it was done. From lifting together lifting the staff to Elidibus dying requiem for his friends and Exarchs sacrifice: "… but in this place shall my body stand immovable". Always gives me chills. Even in Heavens ward remember how great was Sir Aemeric's lines or Hraesvelgr's. Even archbishop had excellent lines despite how little screen time he had: "I have become what you hate warrior of light …" or "what… are… you?!". Of course villains have best dialogue like Griffin "You say no mortal should wield these eyes? Then I shall gladly become a demon! …" or ofcourse Emet-selch innumerable lines, one I remember fondly is "… What of this anguish which yet burns deep in my breast ever after passing of eons!? …". I will quote this game in my head till the day I day lol.
I also have played some other games that are famous for their story like witcher 3 and half life. While they left me in awe how great the stuff was I never had such fond, even personal, attachment to the story the ff14 left me with. Especially Enwalker left me stunned for better part of the month. I connected with it so deeply because of all despair stuff. I think its fine that op of that thread doesnt think much of the story but I tend to think its more of an exception that proves the rule.
Also guys, please do omicron tribe quest line. Its incredible story wise.
just check the dude's reddit posts. He just goes around most of the JRPG subs and shits on all of them. He says DQ is boring, Persona4-5 is atrocious, Nier is meh, the of Mana series is just combat but combat is also shit.
If it’s not one of the best, I’d like to know what tops it
Seto reunion with his dear friend.
/mic drop
Ngl, this person would be right at home in the forums. So much so that I wonder if this isn't some copy-pasta from there lol
The only thing i want to complain about the msq is that the quest itself blow. I wish there are more cool gameplay elements beside just dungeon.
Def agree on music being integral to the story exp. That said, due to the zone background music loop annoying me, I accidentally had bgm turned off during a certain parental reunion scene in EW. Still cried. lol
The truth is that a large part is entirely subjective which is fine. It depends a lot whether you can resonate with certain story beats or not. I absolutely loved the part with the loporrits on the moon while other people didn't like it. When Shadowbringers came out a lot of people didn't like Emet Selch and they called other people who liked him genocide apologists and that SE should feel ashamed for portraying a genocidal maniac like this. Same goes for other games as well.
For example, there's a large part in the soulsborne community that absolutely hates Elden Ring and it's currently a very controversial topic, because some people think that From Software sacrificed things that made the franchise so memorable to appeal to the mainstream. Or same with Breath of the Wild, where people don't like the new formular and would rather prefer another OoT clone. You will always have a certain type of player who thinks that certain parts of a game are blown out of proportion.
regardless of criticism, the ff14 msq is a good one. it's a linear, cohesive, and engaging tale that you become invested in. what more can one ask? one shouldn't need to go to an outside source to have a storyline explained to you. btw, you're looking well considering you got t-boned by a car. glad to see it.
One personal observation: One doesn't need to be a 10-year veteran to be invested in the story from ARR to EW (rather the opposite maybe?), there is so much setup that gets resolved in EW and for me (who started june 21) that setup is still fresh. The ONLY wait for new content I had was a month or two waiting for EW, and I'm happy for that! A yearlong pause between expansion would have been a drag.
If XIV’s story quality is blown out of proportion, then WoW’s or Elden Ring’s gameplay quality are as well.
It’s all a matter of preference and perspective. Bias and favouritism will always skew one’s point of view.
I didn’t enjoy SB as much as I wish, msq wise vs HW/Shb part of that is act one, it had an annoying individual who bugs all the way to the east. But once act two and three gets rolling it got good real fast that’s all I’m gonna say for SB. HW and Shb was amazing, a bit slow on some of the msq but the ending was fulfilling and emotional. I do like the transition from SB to Shb at the end nice touch there.
There are times I think FF14 story over-explains things and make some points drag out a bit too long but it doesn't really diminish anything for me. As a long time player, I do appreciate the attention to detail and reminders of what might have happened several months apart. For new players however, I think it pads things out a bit too much and they should maybe be condensed a little bit more for their enjoyment. Canonically that space of time is a lot closer together anyway so they could stand to smooth things out a bit more. Granted they have been doing that with some ARR and HW content already. I'm seeing people go through years worth of content in months or even just weeks because they find the story that captivating.
I see ffxivdiscussion continues to deliver quality memes, unlike the main. Personally I find FFXIV story about on par with the Mass Effect saga, which is very glowing praises from me. Also strangely similar: the characters were a huge part of why I liked Mass Effect so much. Games I think the story is actually overblown by their superfans are the Witcher, Warcraft III and KotOR.
The only way to solve the problems that exist due to the limitations generated by version 1.0 would be a new MMO.
They will hardly waste time fixing these problems, which must be extremely complex and require time that would be better invested in creating a whole new game.
A FF XVII or XVIII maybe?
Some people just need their stories written out for them in crayon Blizzard-style in order for them to understand.
It's hard to say how "good" or "bad" a story is as everyone has their own experiences. It's narrow-minded to scorn and discredit other's feelings for not thinking and seeing things like you did. To be clear, this goes both ways.
You can have downbeats and low stakes in a story and still be interesting. Some of my favorite moments in stories are literally just characters talking to each other. I agree that the overall story is really good, but I wouldn't say the writing is 100% on point all the time. I don't think this is solely on the writer's end though, I'd say they're still trying to figure out how to balance the writing and the mmo gameplay, specifically during downbeats in the story.
I think OP is correct. The story is by no means bad, in fact Endwalker is personally probably one of my favorite RPG stories in recent years, but i think when people hype it up to an impossible standard it brings the story down, because people expect it to be the greatest thing ever. I got hit with this when i got to shadowbringers. people kept saying SHB was the most amazing game ever made and when i got to it i was expecting alot of amazing things id never seen before, instead (and maybe this is because i have played many other JRPGS including the other FF games) i was able to guess who the exarch was when i first saw him, i was able to guess what would happen at the end and alot of the twist (purposefully trying to be vauge). I still enjoyed SHB but i enjoyed the patches to stormblood more because the expectation for SHB were pushed so high and i had almost no expectations for stormblood that i was expecting more. The overhype really makes it hard to cull expectations and tends to shoot them to an almost impossible to meet standard
I look at FF14's story as I would look at a long running TV show or book series. I finished the main story+trials and raid stories in about 350 hours. I didn't enjoy all of it and that is fine. A story this long will have highs and lows, it will have parts that just don't land with you or turn out to be a slog. It will have janky or bloated parts. But with all of that said, they still managed to create an experience, where if I add everything together, I can't wait to jump into the next part of the MSQ, try out the new raid/trial and see what FF14 has in store this time.
a big reason the story hits harder for long time vets is because you think about the moments in your life the story reminds you of like when arr came out i was doing this irl or this happened for me you think back to that and it adds emotion .
I really like FFXIV’s story, HOWEVER, I feel like you could trim down each expansions MSQ down by like 20-30%, and still deliver the same narrative and emotional impact.
Although as a newer player I was able to experience the entire MSQ from ARR through EW over a six month casual grind. Maybe the MSQ wouldn’t feel quite as bloated if I had to wait between expansions. I do already miss my scion friends and eagerly await when the next MSQ patch goes out.
I've not been a superfan of the story, but I really enjoy world building in the background of mmos. I find the races, past wars, and religions most interesting. Although, adding onto a story to the quality presented each expansion is quite amazing. It lacks in places, but most of it feels like it builds on naturally over the years. I miss papalymo tho.
In order to feel the weight of the last two expansions you have to play through the first three expansions seriously and really sympathize and connect with the characters. You see their flaws and their growth, if you can't get engaged early then despite how fun the ride is on the last two expansions it just doesn't carry the same weight.
While you were talking about music with the shadowbringers trailer next to you, I could hear the trailer music in my head so clearly even though nothing was playing