Quazii reacts to Jocat’s “So I Wanna Talk About How It Took Me 300 Hours To Like FFXIV (and how you can too in far less time)” – original video here: https://youtu.be/7LM08VrEs6k
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A realm reborn, reborn
With over 4000 hours on my main character and been playing since ARR was current content – I've actually started a FRESH character to replay the whole story as a new character.
I have a friend that quit immediately after the Ravana fight in Heavensward. We assured him that “things get better” but the questing is pretty much the same thing. Plus if you skipped Dusk Vigil then your first piece of content wouldn’t be until Ravana. My friend actually got slightly interested from that point because story-wise, he asked to duel with you. Ice Queen goes first, so you really think that it’s gonna be a solo fight.
He was so disheartened to then see seven other people join him, completely negating that one thing he was holding onto. He hasn’t played since
I had a great ARR experience because I played it during the release cycle. So I was clamouring for ARR content DURING ARR and everything everyone was slogging through was stuff I was grabby handsing.
played 1.0 for 7days and quit.
returned during HW….played to 55 and then quit.
played again in SHB on a brand new trial acct since i forgot both my earlier accounts….finally starting to enjoy the game.
so i've done both pruned and unpruned versions of ARR.
didnt really notice the difference tho
The problem I see when people complain about ARR is they expect everything to be handed to them on a silver plater. It wasn't just lore building, and world building that was going on in ARR. It was our character that was being built as well. Doing those small tasks, going from place to place, it showed that our character had a thirst for adventure and wanted to help everyone to a fault– as we found out in Heavensward. If you want to go places, even irl, you have to put in the work first. The WoL earned what they got through doing everything they did, cutting it all down and saying it is unimportant shows a serious lack of understanding. "Why do I need to go there and go back to do this?" Because that's what the WoL would do. Everyone seems to be under the impression their character is theirs and theirs alone; hate to break it to you, but while you might be able to put flavor on your WoL at the end of the day they are the WoL and will do what the WoL would do whether you like it or not.
Endwalker did the side questing better by tying mini plot points from a quest chain to a previous quest chain you did. Either that or they give lore tidbits with the surrounding environment or characters you meet
56:17 I am quite sure he meant don't skip the scenes.. rather than rushing through because you are so hyped on the story hahahaha!
Play since ARR. Honestly skipped a whole lot in ARR and SB. Annnd I didn’t miss anything important. I’m super invested in the story and the world. Got thousands of hours in the game. But I completely agree with many: some quests are just complete filler. Those I skip.
I'm at the point where XIV i feeling like a job to me. The job quest kept me going (I loved the PUG storyline but I could leave the MNK quest line) through AAR. Then Heavensward came and I fell in love but the future expansions never really grasped me like HW did (unpopular opinion i know).
Now I'm through ShB and am slogging into EW but stalling with the other job quest. I'd be lying if I said i didn't enjoy some parts of the other expansions but the whole of them weren't as interesting. Now I'm just a silly little Lala doing my dailies, sending my retainers out to mug people, gambling, and murdering people in PvP.
This explained the problem with MMORPG development in general. It is very VERY difficult to make compelling quests. It is extremely difficult to make a "quest that makes you do chores" feel good, outside of making it the plot point. This is why 2.0 og storyline isn't as good as everything else. They need time to be good.
Since Stormblood, chore MSQs usually lead to a plot point, or allows you to get a hint of what is going on in the story in the quest itself. That is a very important distinction. You realise that even though you are the "Warrior of Light" who is all-powerful, you are to some of the unknown a nobody. You realise that through gaining the trust, you realise you learn something that you won't have known if you didn't go through them. The plot is filled with tidbits that actually make you think deeper. Stormblood, which wasn't as loved as ShB and EW, was actually a ridiculously good expansion if you realise the undertones it was trying to advocate the entire time, especially when it comes to showing imperfections and showing how easy it is to dislike something if you have a different opinion.
Everyone always talks about how much you won't understand if you skip story, but I think the bigger problem is you won't care as much. Yes, you can go back and watch the cutscenes, but I think that's different from the lived experience of watching the characters and the relationships develop. It is caring about the characters that really makes the story hit, at least for me.
Quazii, you missed the last bit of the video which is very short but extremely wholesome!
I hate the idea that it takes 'x hours' in order for you to enjoy a game. First of all games don't owe anyone anything: you enjoy it you play, you don't enjoy, you move on. To me personally, I'm uncomfortable with the idea of recommending games to people by way of, "Stick with it this long and you'll like it." It's not a promise I'm willing to make. I don't need other people's enjoyment of what I enjoy to validate what I enjoy. I ought to be able to cite any of the dozens of glowing reviews for this game to prove that it has critical acclaim, then let other players decide for themselves whether they like playing it. Even when they don't enjoy FF14, it doesn't mean that this is a bad game, or that I enjoy playing bad games.
Everything depends on how much you feel for the characters you have been traveling together. It is up to people and no problem but you all want other people to feel the same wonder and amazement (emotional roller coaster you have been through) right? I do. I really love this game from the bottom of my heart. Then Endwalker is such a treasure. Full of the most memorable moment in FFXIV and I would say up to this point bc I know 4 sho there will be more to come over the next 10 years. And thanks Quazii, your reactions are one of my fav along wth zapla, rich, preach pyromancer and all who truly enjoy ff14.
So in ARR, the very first time Hydaelyn talks to us (i.e., the "Hear… Feel… Think…" cutscene) she says this: "The power to banish the Darkness dwelleth in the Crystals of Light. Journey forth and lay claim to them.
By thy deeds shall the Crystals reveal themselves to thee." This tells me that our primary purpose is to attune to all these crystals that we find on our quests (i.e., aetherytes) and we have to do certain deeds to journey forth. It's a cryptic message, but I think they told us from the beginning what to expect.
I wish I have the free time to replay the MSQ from the ARR again in future.
Were da eels?
I SERIOUSLY hate the "I didn't enjoy a story I wasn't even reading, ergo the story is bad"…no the story isn't bad, you don't even know what the story IS.
So i'm one of the unprunneed ARR doer. And tbh until patch story isn't THAT bad. But patchs were terribles, they had lots of "oh go talk to Thancred he needs to tell you how awesome he is at failing all his spying missions…"
I feel like ARR story (even more now) isn't that awful, and tbh lots of people main grip is that you don't start as the hero (usual hollywoodian story telling) and… it's fine really. But i really feel like no it would not be better as a single player story.
I think (and it's a good exercise for the dev) They should "force" people to watch a short recap (max 10 minutes, mandatory voiced) when they are buying a skip. Like that they would know at least the basis to enjoy the story.
I personally feel like FFXIV could use more duty's during the MSQ that is probably the strongest portion of questing. Now that they have the trust system, why not have trust only mini dungeons? They could also have you do certain fates in the world tied to MSQ etc All of which would be more fun and introduce content.
I played ARR on the release of HW, unpruned 100% pure patch quest grinds. It wasnt as bad as people made it out to be. But it definitely requires emotional investment.
I went in expecting a Final Fantasy, with a touch of MMO on the side, so my expectations were met.
I honestly didn't care for the Dark Knight questline, I didn't get the hype, and this is coming from an FF14 fanboy. I mean, it's fine, "fine", but I would never be like, hey you, play this class so you can experience this little story.
The experience would be much better if XIV has a VR version. The questing that XIV has fit well in VR since there will always be characters that give you something and tell you to go somewhere to get what you want. It’s not working with ppl who don’t feel any of that as tedious because they think that the game has been streamlined from beginning to the end. That’s not how VR games tend to ask you to do as you can just collect items before doing the quests or explore any place you want to instead of following the questline.
Spoilers:
i just realize watching again the realm reborn trailers in this video, when the warrior of light and his party riding the chocobo, that not us as warior of light? was it ardbert and his companion?
I can answer the question that Yoshida had answered a long time ago with storyteller of A realm Reborn about the part why we had to travel all the way somewhere to deliver a message and then go back and all those mundane side-quest esque story-telling that isn't really capturing one's attention.
Back when 2.0 was launched, the dev team and story team sat together with Yoshida and they planned out how to make the best use out of people's times to balance game time, side content, main story content and more active content. They concluded that each level quest should take about 9 rounds, and about 16 minutes, i am unsure of the exact numbers they gave, or was it 9 minutes each? Regardless, back in the day, they decided that this was the best way to go. Now if you look at the MSQ per-patch pace, you see they have at some point come to a consistent length and duration. But back then there was little to no content, hence, A realm Reborn is more like a Real time waster. And this is also what prompted them to shorten the ARR storyline because what was important, and necessary, back then, is no longer necessary. that is the reason they sometimes make you seem like traveling for pointless unengaging reason.
I read all the dialogue…. except from certain "scholars" that do not know when to stfu… (Mikoto (Bozja, Artisan raids) & Erik (Monk quests)).
But, yeah, the fact that I can RP to my hearts content is stellar and really makes me want to return and advance my character/myself through certain parts of the world that I/we are interested in.
I played pre-pruned version of ARR, and it was fine. I never suffered during, i realize it is bit slow, but still way faster than, say, vanilla WoW leveling was. And story is great. So i feel that "arr being slow" is overblown.
My friends started at HW. They did to level 15 and then watched the hw trailer. The game gives most of the context.
Ultimately, the MSQ serves as a binding element for the community. A campfire around which everyone can gather and bond over if they've played through it. I'm starting to think that this is why the community as a whole doesn't seem nearly as toxic as others like WoW or League (just to name the first that come to mind, you get the idea). Skipping the story (even with a recap) doesn't let you in on this feeling the same way.
56:26 I have a friend that is very…unattached to the story and can definitely stop at the weirdest points. lol
Whenever she's online and willing to share her MSQ I like to rewatch it with her, and though she's enjoying it, she can reach a point where things are going down badly, there's meteors falling, everything's burning, your friends are in danger and she's like "oh ok gonna do some random meaningless sidequests to clear the map and going to bed" and I'm like HOW????
Different people enjoying the game differently I guess 😡
I can't do this. When I reached the last map for example in EW I COULD NOT STOP until I reached the very last quest.
It would be nice if they trimmed and restructured the ARR MSQ down into a bit of a movie. I have a lot of friends that I would love to recommend the game to that would absolutely love Heavensward, Stormblood, and Shadowbringers but I don't know if they would survive the ARR experience before quitting.
I'm surprised he pointed out the running around in ShB because that quest is literally the entire MSQ in SB, which is by far the worst expansion. I would play up to SB, buy a skip, then play ShB after it, and I would recommend that to anyone. It's legitimately worth paying just to skip SB.
I've seen this with other WoW players coming over to XIV, but I think the biggest misapprehension that WoW has ingrained in players is the split between "levelling" and "endgame".
WoW players want to grind as fast as they can through the filler content to get to endgame as fast as they can because they know, from experience, that it is just "get 5 wolf pelts" and there's no greater lore or characterization there. The wolf pelts are not going to factor in to the story later. It's just a thing to take time to give you XP to gradually level you up.
XIV is a story-based game first. The concept of "leveling" does not apply, and I honestly think new players might be more open to the game if they removed character levels entirely, and just based unlocks off of quest progression. This need to reach endgame, "where the game gets good" in so many other MMOs, leaves so many players still to miss what makes XIV truly unique and excellent.
His advice for people to buy skips reinforces this point. It's like buying a book, and then paying a little extra to not read it.
The Shadowbringers outfit is probably referencing the Neo-Ishgardian sets.
It's nuts to think they've had some idea since the beginning how they wanted to end the Zodiark/Hydaelyn story. This is something that was thought of 8 years ago and now it's coming full circle. Mind is blown.
But I will say this as someone that wasn't really into questing in World of Warcraft and just wanted to hit endgame to raid, 14 was rather difficult to get into (I've been playing 3 years now) at first and I definitely quit a couple times. Though looking back now, I feel dumb for doing so.
Always hated stories in MMOs but now I can't do without thanks to this game.
I am the exact opposite of most FFXIV players. I picked up ARR at launch and was hooked from the character creation screen, played up through the msq and then stopped playing for almost a year because at that time I hated the fact that dungeons and trials were part of the game and just wanted more quests without them being locked behind "content". I never canceled my sub but I only played each patch as it was released for the story and wouldn't touch the game until the next patch, once the gold saucer was released it was basically the only content I ever logged into the game for until Heavensward came out. It wasn't until Heavensward that I chose to run a dungeon more than a single time for the story, and Stormblood before I ever chose to redo a trial. I didn't even try an extreme trial until Shadowbringers, as the story had me so hooked and the gameplay was so fun that I felt a deep desire to play constantly.
I have never like JoCat much but I hope he is speaking honestly here even if I disagree with about half he's saying.
First timed to see a Jocat video where he isn't using the leader of the Tantalus Theatre Group from FF9 as an avatar