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ALSO YES I did shave but I promise it grows back within a day, my beard genetics are OP
TL;DR I think Uncoiled Fury is way too strong, I think the idea of uncoiled fury is good, but it needs tuning – but with how easy it is to obtain uncoiled fury stacks, it makes disengages too free. Ninja has to lose a raiton inside kunai's bane to disengage or use a phantom Kamaitachi that isn't always available on the fly – Suiton is my favourite disengage but it requires kunai to be around 20s or less. I also think ninja needs buffs. BIG time, especially abilities that are used inside Kunai/dokumori. Its a heavy burst job, burst is its identity. With the existence of Kunai's bane its even more the case since its in every odd and even window and it increases your damage by freaking 10%! – you literally prepare your whole setup around your burst. It should do far more than what it does currently in terms of DPS.
Why not have the Raiju get a buff under kazematoi gage since it would actually make the gage relevant for burst damage.
NO. I need more love right now, more than Ninja. Maybe a hug.
I think people look at ninja, see ranged attacks and think we have the best disengages; but its almost always at the expense of our burst. Even in our dokumori windows where PK is a low priority, it can fit under doku but before bane. Ninja and Viper seem to have a similar relationship to Picto and BLM before BLM buffs. Its more work for less reward.
TCJ is why I played reaper in EW and viper now
My idea, Nin should get Shadow Fang (whatever the dot was called) back as a 3rd combo finisher, and it should be a poison dart ranged attack and cost like X kazematoi
What about something like Hide into disengaged grants you an instant +1 stack of Ninjutsu, which is at the cost of gauge when used. I feel like Hide is such a neat and core Ninja Identity move and we don’t get to use it. It just makes sense, hide to disengage from the boss, and sneak attack strike from the shadows
The full value of a ninja is right on par with other melee right now, so it doesn't need buffs. Ninja really just needs QoL. It's way more punishing than it should be to mess up on the most important and defining feature of the job. It's weird for monk to have a consolation prize when fucking up PB but not ninja. Otherwise, everything is fine with current damage balance.
I know you didn’t talk about this but I really hope they remove Higi from Dokumori and just perma buff Bhava and Hellfrog.
Feels so bad to have new animations you never see and even with Deathfrog you wouldn’t even spend your first 50 ninki on it in your AoE burst
BLM needs buffs more, it's so much more extra work, just to barely do picto damage without raidbuffs 🙁
Ninja is pretty much perfect all it needs is a dew damage buffs
Viper is just better ninja sadly
Looking at the job guide since I don’t main Ninja. All I can think of based on how they designed the job for 7.0. Just give bunshin the trait of giving full stacks of kazematoi since the duration last 30 secs. Plus players going to activate it during burst so there’s no reason to proc them during burst via armor crush.
Only watch 3 mins in so it’s what I thought of at the moment.
I'm sorry I was weak i swapped to pct ;-; nin hurts
Viper has all that ranged with like the top DPS but the current actual ranged jobs suck ass and are near or at the bottom….
I think NIN just needs the SAM autocrit for Kassatsu, or maybe check the critical hit values because I feel I get no crits with 3k crit with all my gear, or you know, revert the trick attack nerf
NIN got the BLM treatment this expansion and it made me not very enticing to play :/ just outshined by newer job. I get it that we have partywide buff but I feel like I have to work waay to much for my damage
I think the problem Ninja has in terms of disengage tools for the dev team is that IN THEORY Ninja has the most disengage tools of any melee so I understand the blind spot of not addressing that by adding more to compensate for DT fight design.
However Ninja's disengage tools are all either saved for burst or highly situational. So sure it's great that as a melee I can go stand in Narnia, Hyosho, TCJ, Raiton, Raiton, Phantom, snap back with a Raiju and just avoid an entire giant circle around the boss when it comes up like that while Reaper or Viper or Samurai have to be glued to the boss at max melee.
But throwing dagger is way too punishing a dps loss for any downtime that happens between 21 and 40 seconds of every minute. Uncoiled Fury is absolutely OP, Harpe is not a DPS loss (and not a cast if you teleport out) and keeps generating Soul Gauge, and even Enpi gets a damage boost if backflip first.
Quick fix would honestly be to allow Throwing Dagger to become equal in damage to Spinning Edge and consume a Kazematoi stack.
Ninja is super fun to play when everything is working well, but when parts of the kit aren't working as intended it has a very "they sent more trains to fix the train wreck" problem b/c so many buttons in it's kit are dependent on other buttons in the kit working as intended.
i really think they should have one of the 2 minute buffs also give kazematoi stacks just like 2 is fine. will give an extra bit of dps bumps and adds a bit of optimization too
Ninja should just be removed. If Ninja can't main tank as a dodge tank then it has no class identity
My as a monk looking at my co-melee switching from ninja to viper and noticing he has 9 seconds of disengage uptime…
Man.jpeg
You don't need to turn ninja into baby-mode viper. At this point, viper just shouldn't deal as much dmg as it does.
Have same issue with DRG's vs RPR's disengage tools. While RPR has Harvest Moon (800 potency, if I recall correctly) and Harpe (300 potency) that also have same value for job gauge as regular GCDs, DRG has only Piercing Talon (150 potency), which also doesn't help with your main rotation and drifts your GCDs to the point where you lose Chaotic Spring ticks (45 potency per one tick). Sad to see NIN and DRG, both my favorite melees, being so cucked by those new jobs.
Ninja just either needs dmg buff or actual utility. Nobody gaf if you give 5% dmg. Picto and monk both do that and are leagues beyond ninja in terms of numbers and utility
Monk also deals with short disengages beautifully
I feel like ninia is too chill to buff it.
Yes Viper exists but it is a disguisting outlier.
The latency limitation for being able to do the weaves properly is why I won't play the job at this point, the TCJ followup only added another oGCD to weave in that mix now. 🙁
I think your point of kazematoi effecting ranged abilities is probably the easiest and best solution when it comes to dealing with downtime while adding more complexity to the job. You would want to try to use your kaze stacks for edge however if you know you would need to disengage having kaze buff your daggers when you don’t have phantom or suiton is a easy solution.
Kazematoi stacks (2?) spent on a "free" 1 sign mudra that gives you "Fuma Kunai." There's a few ways to go with that. Could even buff TCJ's Fuma?
they should make the kunai gauge to deal more damage for raiton too…
i mean its lore accurate thoo, you imbue your kunai with raiton
Yeah, VPR does so much damage for how "forgiving" it is around mechanics.
Im feeling you too. I main Ninja too, i played Viper for Dawntrail story and I didnt believe how they give Viper so much advantage as melee. I decide to stop to play for a while, i was disapointed by the treatment for Ninja. The job is really good and fun to play but i dont understand why the job need to make more effort on fight and have no reward for it. Viper is just ridiculously too strong. I didnt understand all the polemics about the difficulty on the rotation at the release of the game. I think they decide which job will be the top dps maybe it's a sort of rotation for every new extension. For now im out for the game, i will come back on the game later
Man, be glad you never played in Hw mate. You would have despised this class. You had all what you had now plus 2 buttons for controlling aggro for your party that you MUST master to be competent. Pressing more for the same is literally the ninja mantra. Its always been this way. All thats happening right now is people are moaning that VPR is too easy for such strength, which is completely fair and I totally agree. VPR does way too much for just following the shiny button. It needs nerfing. NIN does not need buffing.
NIN isn't the only class suffering from this, so is Bard. It's just a different flavour. Do you want ez mode? Then just fucking play Viper, no one cares. Do you wanna press loads of buttons for almost the same damage? Play bard or nin. Every sub class has a class that is ez mode and 1 that takes more to master. Just play the other if you dont like it. Just a really terrible take.
On melee disengage, drg actually has strong options thanks to the very short animation lock of Elusive Jump, and the addition of the glide… but no way in hell would any party let us practice these insane greeds. Like I'm pretty sure we can keep full gcd uptime on m3s towers and still be back on time in our towers.
Scouting to me has always had better ranged options than Striking and Maiming.
NIN definitely still has that, and its not a huge loss to do, but its definitely weaker at it than VPR.
They should lean into the ranged/melee hybrid thing more with NIN compared to VPR.
Even if it means their dummy DPS is a smidge lower than other melee to compensate.
I hope they dont make the Striking and Maiming like Scouting at all. Fuck that.
I don't want more ranged tools. I want to fight for it. Let Scouting be the hybrid-like role. Absolutely love Communio and Harvest Moon to plan around downtime vs. burst.
Tcj movement would be great
I see the points that you are making but I honestly think making it so that every job having an easy disengage tool only leads to more jobs ending up playing the same way, not saying that this change will do it but it's only a matter of time ppl start complaining about other stuff that the 1 melee has that the other doesn't etc. We already see this design problem in tanks imo.
It might be an unpopular opinion but I think the reason that vpr was introduced is that ninja players now have an alternate option to pick for fights that ninja is not going to be "optimal" for, that obviously doesn't work for ppl that want to play only that one job though. But obviously rn vpr is overtuned just like picto is overtuned compared to blm but that will change over the time.
Also isn't that what melees asked for during EW that they wanted to fight for uptime? 🙂
I got tired of ninja aftwr getting it to lvl 70 smh
Dashes and gap closers should just be role skills.
You have a raid buff. Your job also works at more level thresholds than Viper. Viper's dps in level 70 and 80 ultimates is lower than bards. And I'm talking aDps, not rDps, which is also staggeringly low.
Leave Viper alone, it only feels good at Level 100. That's it. It's dogshit at every level below that.
Ok I know this might be a little too much and would basically make the opener way too tight and have to leave things out but what about an extra charge of kassatsu I think that would be an interesting thing in ninjas arsenal to have for a disengage 😂
Armor crush build kazematoi stacks then the stacks buff the throwing daggers? Turn it to actual kunai. But then make it ogcd 😂
DRK deserves the love before any other job, at least NIN does what it's supposed to do and in a stylish way, DRK on the other hand…..😬💀
I've been playing NIN since late Heavensward. It has always been my main. Honestly, the job feels so tiring to play sometimes. It is so complicated and meticulous about its timings. I picked NIN because i like rogue classes, and it felt close to that. I also really like the support and dps mix of the class. But slowly, more dps started getting dmg buffs, and it became more about all players placing a 2 min buff window, and NIN lost its uniqueness. I guess my main thing is we work really hard for little reward. I would rather just have less business at this point and flexibility than messing up a gcd and feel bad all fight. I do normal raids mostly now and just play dancers so that i can turn off my brain and take a break. SAM feels like the perfect balance right now of flashy openers and burst mixed with cd management and entertaining gameplay. I play SAM to have fun as melee.
I fully agree
Kazematoi is so disjointed from the rest of the kit that it's disappointing. They specifically make sure GNB cartridges work for their AOE. DRK can spend mana on AOE. SAM can build and spend their stickers on AOE. MNK can seamlessly switch between AOE and single-target for their whole rotation, and so can VPR.
But they add a new resource to NIN and it ONLY works with single-target filler? It didn't even change our rotation!
What I was HOPING it would do is: Armor Crush either debuffs enemies or buffs our damage (the latter is better). Aeolian Edge generates Kazematoi. Huraijin spends Kazematoi as a high potency burst from a 20 yard range (that we can HOLD ONTO because of multiple Kazematoi charges). And ideally, Armor Crush gets removed from the 1-2-3 combo chain, or else gets its own attack chain, but that wouldn't be necessary (just less punishing).
That would have been WAY BETTER than what we got.
I've been a NIN main since it released, but now I'm playing VPR because I can't see a benefit to pretending its numbers aren't just that much superior while using the same gear. It just feels like they need to catch up every other melee to where VPR design currently is. (for example – why is Spinning Edge > Gust Slash > Aeolian Edge separated into 3 buttons? It could be a single button that transforms the way VPR buttons do!)
I don't think VPR has "too many" ranged attacks because, remember: It's ranged tools are EXTREMELY HIGH POTENCY. You're tempted to spend them immediately, but smart players will hold onto them for melee disengage. It's a DPS loss to hold onto them for too long.
Numbers-wise, I think they just need to dramatically buff the potencies of ALL of our Mudra and also Fleeting/Forked Raiju. Those are the buttons that are most iconic for NIN and most satisfying to get right.
(Also, DwD could use a second charge)
i don’t think kazumatoi is a last minute add. They added cus there is so much you can build on in the future as they said they wanna try and go more on job identity in future patches and next expansion
the idea of 1 extra mudra does absolutely nothing
its basically 1 extra ration in the entire fight and u will use it on ur next trick attack after the opener
if they would add a 1 extra mudra i want also to reduce the cd of mudra from 20 sec to 15 or whatever just so it will not just be 1 extra ration in a 10 min fight