FFXIV takes an even more overt dive into the philosophical, and for the better. Today, we discuss my Endwalker finale impressions.
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Hey Matt. This is re: Zenos and how different you think you are.
You can hate someone and everything they stand for, but doing so will never mean that you have nothing in common with that person. Humans are nuanced beings, and even the most virtuous among us will have elements in common with those who are evil. Admitting this and being able to empathize with others is not a weakness or something that we need to resist. In fact it's the opposite: by doing so you allow yourself to see your imperfections, to better understand your faults, and become a better person.
The Warrior of Light, while "you," the player, must also have some autonomy in order to be a well-developed character and not just a vessel to be steered. The writers see the WoL in the context of the entire game, i.e., someone who fights to overcome challenges, to be the best, to defeat stronger and mightier foes. In this way, the WoL shares common ground with Zenos, whether you'd like to admit it or not. The line "This, I cannot deny" is not admitting that you are no better, or different than Zenos. Rather, it is merely an expression of common ground in a single aspect of their being… which is both true, and unsurprising.
Also, the only reason you haven't yet played this game, specifically, for the combat and experienced the "thrill of battle" is you haven't yet done Savage/Extreme content in the later expansions, lol. The moment you do this, you'll realize and understand how utterly FFXIV raiding shits on WoW raiding and better grasp the thrill of it. You'll no longer just be playing for the story and characters. FFXIV has the best high-end raids in any MMORPG period, hands down.
One thing I like is that the score between you and zenos is 2-2
I was already unhappy with the way the story was going to and Zenos comes in. That was the last stroke for me. It ruined everything for me…
I think the main problem for Bellular in this case, is that he distinguishes between his game character, and himself.
I felt Zenos final conversation / confrontation was in the same vein as when Yoshi-P speaks to you during The Rising event. It is a conversation adressed to me the player and served to fuse me as a person into my WoL character.
What I enjoy the most is that each of the four ancients you encounter suffer different fates that reflect them as characters. HYthlodaeus sacrifices himself to summon Zodiark, Venat sunders the world and becomes Hydaelyn, Hades barely manages to avoid being sundered along with only 2 more people and Hermes is sundered. All of them are fully realized people and all of them, even Hermes/Amon/Fandaniel make sense and their ultimate fates reflect that.
I disagree with your views
The warrior of light has never been 100% your own personality and bias – this isn't a western RPG like Skyrim or Mass Effect, we merely pick his/her appearance. The game WOL has always been an adventurer at heart seeking new challenges and option 1 reflects that. Whether or not it reflects YOU is the wrong way to take it. This is a JRPG and more than half of WOL is based on what the writers want him/her to be
Time travel is a closed loop. So it's good. We were always meant to go back.
i hope they fix zenos in EW, but end up he remain same in SB which is a shame. atmost, he merely has tiny character development. it is such a waste because if they didnt drop the ball with him, that last fight would be much better and meaningfull. it could even rival the iconic battle between Cloud and Sephiroth.
Your ONLY mistake with ffxiv… is that you did what you said to others to not do. Rushing.
You blasted through the MSQ never letting anything sink in you.
You missed alot of things.
I think your criticism of the end fight stems purely off a misundertanding of what "option 1" actually means.
I answered remember asking zenos to be friends in stormblood as a joke and the way he responded in kind. then it went to endwalker he finally helped others even for a selfish goals i answered "That I cant deny" as a Ok zenos you earned this a quip of sarcasm i remember being surprised at the expression my character made
I'm sorry but you wanted us to finish off the entire store thus far with a talk? Bruh.
I was the opposite. I didn't like Zenos until the end when I got to understand him. I get it he was meant to be the reflection of the player but if you are not that type of player it would miss. If you like character development I recommend the Soul reaver series.
The narrative around Zenos worked for me, I chose dialogue #1 because well, Zenos was kind of right. But it's true that he his addressing US rather than our character, if you consider your character as being someone that isn't you, then the dialogue doesn't really work.
Something very interesting that I've caught on though, is that Zenos isn't the only character to speak directly to US in this expansion. Venat also does it in the Elpis cutscene, it's just more subtle in her case, you can definitely choose to believe that she speaks to your character. But when she asked her question , I immediately felt that she was asking ME whether or not my time in 14 was worth it. I might be wrong, but I think the writers did this on purpose to involve the players in the story on a more personal level. And it worked well for me… It felt not just like the end of my character's journey in this arc, but also the end of MY journey with the arc, if that makes sense.
I chose option 2. I couldn't let Zenos live, not after everything he had done, and I did see him as my character's mirror (I mean think about what he represents at this point, he is technically the Emperor of Garlemald even if the Empire itself is gone, he is a primal and they were our consistent enemies AND due to being a resonant he has become pretty much akin to an Ascian…he is almost the complete sum of everything we fought against in one neat package) but I wasn't going to face him on his terms. I was going to face him on mine, not for the pleasure of fighting him, nor for the hate I had for him, but because of my responsibility as the warrior of light to protect others, and that responsibility meant I couldn't let Zenos leave there alive. I dealt with his obssession by telling him it was irrelevant to me and that was how I denied him. It was an option that fit perfectly well with my character. I think most players were covered by the three options provided, but I am sorry for the fourth who simply wished to deny him entirely.
This is my opinion for Zenos.
Zenos: Seeking happiness for him self only.
WoL: Seeking happiness for him and other's.
Zenos: Hey! Let's duel, WoL!
WoL: No! I have a job to do.
Zenos: What!?!?!?! What about I force you to duel? Not good? T-Then I help you clear the job.
(Job done)
Zenos: Now you're free from job, Let's PVP and enjoy happiness for our self.
WoL: Hell yeah!
I feel like Zenos is a good example (In my opinion only) of a character overstaying their welcome in a storyline. I've never been a fan of having overarching bigbads in story-telling though, it puts to much weight on a singular character, and I feel it leads the writers into the construction of plot armor. I wasn't really into the majority of the plot in Stormblood either though, so perhaps the fact that Zenos stuck around all this time just kept reminding me of parts of this gorgeous game that I don't like.
i just hope everyone who chose the option to tell hydalin that you doesnt trust her anymore feels like a dick now
I have been operating under the assumption that the teleporter was given to us by Meteion… You just blew my mind with the idea that it may have been Zenos with his final breath
You don't need to apologise for anything.
A good story will always have different views. Some people still vilify Venat/Hydaelyn for example.
Other's don't understand Hermes at all.
However, I am among those that picked #1 against Zenos. I hated Zenos until that point, but he spoke to me and my character, personally. Yes I help people, I save people.
But look at the Aether current quests. Everytime there's a follow up quest that doesn't give an aether reward, I bolt THE FORK OUTTA THERE.
My character (me) don't mind helping people, as long as my interests align. And maybe it's the right thing to do as well, sure.
So when Zenos says all that crap, and there's no one else listening in – for me and my character, it was ….refreshing. FINALLY I can stop living for others, and let's just forking fight it out at the edge of creation.
No more thinking about catboy adventurers, Red mage fangirls or dreamy Estiniens.
No.
Just the pure joy of a good fight, after the universe is saved. No reason at all. Just the fight.
That's why Zenos clicked in that moment for me. There's nothing left to do at that point. You can literally just give it your all, for your own sake.
In fact – you're pretty much brought back by the WISHES and PRAYERS of your friends. Almost like a primal yourself.
Now, I do admit that there should've been an option for "not fighting" Zenos. He himself says that he wouldn't stop us from fleeing.
Some extra dialogue there, denying him and making him suffer even more only to be consumed by himself and fight us in a Trance/Berserk mode – without gaining any clarity or joy out of it – would've fit different people and enjoyment – I Can't deny that.
But for 90& ( you mention 70% – but I am very sure it was a lot more % of the playerbase ) of us, the first option was the culmination of letting go of your burdens, promises, titles, pretenses, charades…and just wanting to punch him in the face.
That final instance asks the player, "We've talked about all the heavy stuff, but sometimes we also do things just for fun. Would you like to?"
I believe meaning is created by those who percieve it.
I think I kind of see the "first option" at the end there a bit differently then you do, and I think it's likely cause of my own headcanon just as yours influenced your views on it.
Spoilers incoming, btw, for anyone skimming the comments without finishing the MSQ, for some fucking reason lol
I don't think by you saying "That, I can't deny," it's not admitting that you seek the same thing as him or acknowledging any kind of "kindred" spirit as you imply, to me and at least in the eyes of my WoL it's simply admitting that she's looking forward to ending him. I play her as a DRK canonically so I always try to keep their creed in mind, "we do what must be done," she willingly places herself in harms way, kills enemy soldiers and combatants without second thought, pushes through ever greater challenges, because it's what must be done. So when Zenos says "you can walk away if you'd like, I won't stop you," it was basically him saying he wouldn't force you to right, but he'd already killed himself after the last fight and then came back cause he wanted more, so there would realistically be ZERO believable chance he'd ever stop, give up on his goals again like in the Menagerie. So by my WoL saying "that, I can't deny," with that smirk, was the same as her saying she'd enjoy putting him down, not because she had the same bloodlust as him, but because she always did what she thought must be done, because she liked solving those seemingly impossible problems for other people, which Zenos would always remain if he lived. So, he was right about my WoL at least, but not for the reasons you allude, and I think his lines and your answers were left open enough specifically for this very reason, so we could all choose our reasons as we saw fit.
To me that whole scene worked, I loved it start to finish, it was fucking epic, but just wanted to point out that anyone choosing the first answer wasn't simply admitting "we're the same" to him like you imply.