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00:00 – Skip to Start
4:45 – The Case For Guild Wars 2
26:27 – The Case For Final Fantasy 14
1:08:19 – Subscription Fee & Last Thoughts
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great video, Guild Wars 2 used to be my main game but I kinda fell off after Path of Fire.
As someone who is coming from the opposite direction (thousands of hours in FFXIV and maybe one or two hundred in GW2), there's a part of me that wants to go point-for-point with this video; not as a salty defender of FFXIV, but as someone who [wanted] to love Tyria and GW2 but just… couldn't. So instead of point-for-point, I'll hit the two major ones that have been real barriers to my enjoyment of GW2.
The first is the combat; not the Buildcraft vs. Fixed Kit, or Action vs. Tab Target, but the way the game teaches you to play. The Core Tyria experience does next to nothing to prepare you for the way combat is done in HoT and beyond. I got very comfortable with how my Thief played in Core Tyria when I first started playing. Then I remember hitting HoT for the first time and getting absolutely crushed, with no clear indication of why I was suddenly unable to hold my own like I had for the last 80 levels. It was very much not an enjoyable experience, sitting on the ground waiting for an NPC revive, only to get downed again moments later. The fact that GW2 players even acknowledge that Core Tyria is so different from the rest of the game just makes it all the more glaring when people are allowed to rush straight to PoF, or EoD once it's out, right after finishing Orr. The game teaches you to play one way, then it feels like it punishes you for it later, and it's a very jarring hurdle to hit. Now I could absolutely buckle down and get over that hurdle if I set my mind to it, but the fact that I must [re-learn] how to play a game that I just finished grinding out 80 levels on feels more like a slap in the face for time invested rather than a challenge to be overcome. I don't want the new content to be easier, mind you. Just that the combat experience of Core Tyria should be preparing players for how things are actually done later on, rather than teaching bad habits.
Second is the story. Now I will agree with WP that the actual narrative of Core Tyria, from starting zone to Orr, is absolutely better executed than FFXIV's 1-50 narrative. I don't think one is necessarily better, as they're telling very different scopes of story, but I fully agree that GW2 delivered its first story arc better than FFXIV did. In fact GW2's 1-80 experience is one of my favorite parts of GW2 for that reason. My issue is how it was delivered after, and how you experience it as a new player. To be absolutely blunt, the Living World is terrible for new players. Not only does your purchase of the game not include these vital bits of past story arcs, which you must purchase separately, an entire foundational chapter of the story is unplayable.
For veterans who went through it, I have no doubt that Season 1 was excellent; the brief overview cinematic they were kind enough to include certainly seems like it would be a blast. But… I can't experience it, or any of the character moments and relationships my Commander would have established with the new cast. And that becomes the first domino in a very big problem for someone who [wants] to get invested in the story and characters. The game won't let me or, in some ways worse, charges me for the privilege of seeking that investment. And if, personally, I can't get invested, my interest will not stick long enough to get stuck into the game for the long haul. Say what you like about how long FFXIV's narrative is, but save for the failed original version, every player gets the full story, no matter when they start playing, and build their attachment to the cast and world in the same way veterans did, and that unity of experience is very visible in the FFXIV community.
Tyria is absolutely a wonderful world, and I love the races, history, art style, and the [concept] of its gameplay. There's a reason I'm subscribed to WP, because I do like the game. But whether looking at story or gameplay, at some point I feel the game doesn't want me; or at least it's not doing a good job enticing me to play past Core Tyria for either story or gameplay. To me, it seems to be designed for the veterans who have kept up-to-date, and unfortunately, as a late arrival, that means it feels like it's not really being designed pull me in. And I hope that changes one day, because I could absolutely see GW2 becoming my side-hobby right next to FFXIV one day. Just… not in its current state.
Okay a bit of correction on the map department. FF does add new maps during patches from Stormblood and on through the exploration content, Eureka in Stormblood and Bozja in Shadowbringers. Eureka added 4 new maps through patches and Bozja added 2 new maps and 3 new 24 man raids specific for that content on top of the usual 24 man raids we normally get every other patch and from what we know they'll continue with another exploration content in Endwalker as well so we'll still be getting new maps in the 6.x patches. On top of that, Bozja and Eureka maps are quite huge in size when compared to some smaller maps GW2 added like Draconis Mons.
Outside of that, I feel like everything is spot on for the most part, really.
I went back to GW2 a few months ago. I play it daily to at least get one toon up a level. It is relaxing and I love the art. But I am looking forward to the future graphics updates. I just hope they never get rid of the hand drawn and hand painted style. I love it.
idk about the story but i prefer gw2 story more than ffxiv, not because of how good or bad the story is but because of the way the told the story, i like GW2 story because almost all of them are voice acted, but only a few part in ffxiv story that voice acted, i know people gonna say don't be lazy just read the story, but i can't, i get bored so easily if i have to read to consume the content. i usually don't give a fuck about story in mmos because most of them are text based story ( not voice acted ) but if everything is voice acted i would hear it and listen to the story, it's easy to get immerse in the story that way. this is why i prefer audio book than traditional reading the book. i'm new to gw2 and ffxiv. but i can see your views and i agree with most of your views on both games.
if there is job specializations in ffxiv and i build dark knight to be a DPS job not a tank i would 100% keep playing ffxiv.
Regarding ffxiv addons. It's a gray zone, devs don't support them but so far they don't ban ppl untill the addon/player using it does something stupid. Like posting a adult picture on social media (it can hurt the games age rating) or if the addon affects gameplay by giving clear advantage to the player using it.
In FF 14 everything is amazing apart from the static tab target combat, that's why I prefer GW2 u can actually Aim at enemies.
The combat of FF14 is extremely boring to me and in my eyes combat makes or breaks an mmorpg.
26:25 the shadowbringers music is spot on, it literally screams for me, now it is comeback time and gw 2 is about to get DESTROYED.
Best mmo experience for me through the years is playing both, because each game scratch a different itch.
This gave me a pretty solid idea of how the game is after you get into it. Unfortunately I can't get over the art style and GCD combat :(. Just feels so backwards to me after playing so many other newer MMOs with action combat.
Gw2 best MMO ever and I've played a lot of MMO's
Oh Boy, its gonna be so fun for all the new FFXIV streamers when Endwalker comes out and theres gonna be a 4k+ Que even with added instances (3 per map) on all servers.
man final fantasy looks so ugly on its environment, their character models are nicely though but way to weeabu.
Gotta be honest, I would love to see something like this for Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2.
GW2 doesn't have anything server near Asia or SEA and they will almost certianly will not be added as far as I know , so that is enough for me to stay in FF more than GW2.
Having no monthly fee is much more appealing to me than being able to have my character toss and turn in bed and other fiddly, non-gameplay stuff. Gw2 wins for me just by not having a recurring fee regardless of how much or little I play. There are waaaay too many things that require a monthly fee these days, so more and more I choose the pay once option when available.
What? You're SHOWN Taimi's disease, you're shown how it progresses when she lies that it's regressing. You're shown these things if you pay attention. When she walks outside of Scruffy her limping gets progressively worse from HoT to s4. You just never notice because it happens gradually, She's limping in HoT, then she limps a little more in s3, and a little more again in PoF and s4. This is how people hide degenerative diseases in the real world. And if you see them often you never notice. If it progresses from 4 to 7 then it's really noticeable to people who see them rarely. For people who see them often, they've seen 4, 5, 6, and finally 7. For them, the massive change happens incrementally. This process is called normalization.
If you really want to see her degenerative disease progressing play the LS seasons and HoT out of order and it becomes really noticeable, especially if you play PoF/s4 and then go back to HoT. Her limp is noticeably less severe in HoT than in PoF/s4.
I feel this video was a made a little too soon, as you haven't finished Shadowbringers, Or at least 5.0 pre patch bits. ( I don't mean that as a form of gate keeping I promise!) as some points you've made either get better and expanded on, or some points you say one thing for, is actually more used for later, or improved upon. A lot of stuff still seems new still and you have a bit of a wide eyed sense of wonder towards the content and features of FF XIV with excitement of things to still discover, while your knowledge and info on Guild Wars 2 sounds like someone who has been playing it for years. That's not to say this video is bad by any means, quite the opposite! I just think more time playing XIV and discovering more of what the world holds would have made a more interesting take, and I hope one day in the future you do a revisit on this video for the two games. Maybe after Endwalker and GW 2's newest expansion are done and played, you can revisit this. Excited to see what comes of it, and hope you enjoy the future FF XIV has for you!
I laughed when you compared ARR's msq to the Personal Story. Putting aside the matter of storytelling chops, I recently went through my first character in GW2, and the experience was bad. In spite of its glaring low points, ARR at least feels like a holistic experience when you play through it today.
Never come back wp, we hate you, you turncoat XD
GW2 feel like the case of middle child syndrome, always luking at the distant never got the attention it deserve in this tumultuous time with WOW and FF just took all of the spotlight, nevertheless personally i'm never going to play any free to play games because i've some very bad tendency when it come to them XD.
I really like this review – it's very honest and objective for both games. One more thing about "lack of features" in gw2 and funding – I have a feeling NCSoft pulls a lot of resources from gw2 for other games and projects and my opinion is that gw2 would have much different development and current state if they had kept it.
Having played both for quite some time. FFIX is better in terms of story, music, dungeons, raids. Guild Wars is better in PVP, World Exploration/Content, questing, class builds/diversity. FFXIV mounts are prettier but in guild wars they are more fun to move around. Gameplay wise can't decide which one is better because one is tab targeting focused on 20+ skills rotations and the other is more action oriented, reaction based. I like them both on their own way. Sadly never reached Guild Wars endgame content and I have both expansions.
To my eyes, GW2 is much more user friendly : you log into the game and the second after, you can start playing activities. There's no queue. The UI is close to perfection (storage, crafting, auction etc). Plus, every progress you make is account wide which is incredibly user friendly and time saving! These are the areas where it shines the most.
FF14 though is a meatier and overall better game strictly speaking. It's full of very well produced content, rewards players for being friendly and caring about the game, allows you to jump from frantic paced activities to leisure ones, has tons of wonderful emotes and animations, is perfectly optimized, and provides you with a perfect match between MMO and solo RPG story. It has some terrible downsides though, apart from it requiring a monthly fee. It requires people to engage into dungeons very often to progress into the story, which can become tedious when trying to enjoy the story at your own pace in solo / duo. On the other hand, teammates can't access your personal story instances which feels like a huge restriction compared to more recent games. Your progress is linked to one character only. The UI is a mess, from the tedious and clunky mechanics behind crafting to the hard limitations of storage space. As for the combat, its slower pace isn't the main problem compared to the ton of abilities you unlock by the time you reach max level, which don't bring anything to the table except for just being part of a rotation you have to know by heart in order to perform well. It's overly complex for nothing. And finally, as for the content, sometimes meatier means harder to get into. I've never felt lost in GW2, but in FF14, it is very hard, especially for new players, to get the sense of what they should be going for. The content and length of the story is terrible because it requires you to go through tons of hours of reading just to catch up. The overall pace is very unintuitive and can become tedious quickly. And the game NEVER tells new players what old piece of content is relevant or not.
FF14 would benefit from learning some of the simplicity of GW2 (limiting the skills, limiting the storage issues, giving players a better pace story wise) and GW2 would benefit from FF14 better content and overall production values.
Hi
I play both games since a really long time now and your review nailed almost all my thoughts about both them if we compare them for who is the best, really good review overall
However, there some thing you say I really don't agree with:
The QOL of ff14 is atrocious, yeah sure, you can customize the position of your inventory slot, the health bar and all the stuff you want, but the glamour will still be capped, your inventory will be still full of stuff underlevel or useless craft item, you still have 5 different inventory you can access in different condition and still have difficulty to search squad command or party finder.
Ff14 QOL is really REALLY bad imo and the fact you can fully customize it the position of your stuff should not give it the win to them.
Also the second point I think you didn't mention about the story of ff14 is how solo it is. Almost everything is locked behind story who could take hours and hours of your time, story who are made for solo game mostly and are unfriendly with people who want to play with buddy
A mmo who want you to play solo the game then enjoy the multi-player at the endgame is a big problem IMO and make me even wonder if ff14 should be really compare to other mmorpg
Gw2 is really casual and easy access for everything. Even it's try it can't retain people easily because no engaging endgame, you can play with your friend on story and the meta have to be played with other player (and I not even talking about player interaction in the open world you don't have in ff14) even it's casual, it give the feel of a mmo ff14 doesn't have
Again, I play both since a long time and I'm not a hater of ff14 (I'm waiting endwalker and already pre-ordered the game) but I like to give credit when it's due and saying ff14 have a great story who go in depth without explaining it make more a solo game than a mmo is telling half the truth about ff14 as a mmo
any update about the customer support coming back?
Did he mention that A realm Reborn and Heavensward can be played for free, there are restrictions but that will kinda depend on the person and if they want to try the game by buying it outright having access to everything that’s available at the moment or the free trial again with restrictions.
I'm actually the inverse of your play experience. Longtime FFXIV player dipping into and progressing (as of this moment) into the opening Heart of Thorns story for the first time. Me and a few friends in our FC are taking a sensible break leading up to the Endwalker's release and trying out GW2 (mostly, I'll add thanks to your videos on the story, lore, and character builds looking intriguing). We're having a blast so far for every point you put out, and reflecting a bit of the others all too real. Mostly over the shock of lack of character connection or development (Your video about the lack of Living World Season 1 in a play through helped me and some others cope with suddenly being asked to care about an all new cast we had never interacted with.) Our current kind of 'collective thought', especially as self professed story driven players, is that we love the gameplay of GW2 that we've gotten so far, we're just hoping the story at some point catches up. Considering the things people have said about the expansion stories being good, that's what we're hoping.
Hoping you have fun in 14, Edgewalkers (Get it, EDGE? Cause edgy stereotypes and… yeah.) will be a blast, but don't rush your way through the story! Take your time, enjoy it. Will probably start watching your Twitch a little more consistently. Hoping End of Dragons is great when we eventually get to it!
I love both games. I have in the past said that if you combined the best of GW2 and FFXIV into one, it could easily be the best MMO ever.
25:25 A note that in regards to the data centers of FFXIV, they're working on adding the ability to travel between them. And the login queues are certainly real as for the longest time I never even saw them. It's not a queue about the server being too full so much as it is a keep too many people from logging in at the same moment queue, as I understand it.
41:00 To each their own. I loved ARR just fine. I've played through it at least four times now.
42:45 Sadly I feel GW2 finds other places to not respect your time in.
I've played this game for 9 years and I recently almost quit the game because of funerary incense, provisioner tokens, mystic curio, …
I have no legendary weapons or armor and trying to get them finally made me hate my favorite game
Nice argument for both, personally i like GW2 more because of the live and interactive past phased gameplay, but because you cant gear like usual mmo's ill never play it.
The FFXIV Queue isn't Server Based, it is Data Center Based – I think that is why it is so consistent. I have seen longer ones on some occasions.
Interesting Video. I've only made it to Level 17 in GW2 because I kind of got lost – something that never happened to me in FFXIV or even WoW.
The biggest problem with GW2 is that new content is releasing so slow compared to most of big MMOs
I love this video! Ff14 never spoke to me mainly because of the art style. This does make me want to try FF14 as well though.
I would be playing both if ff14 didn't had a subscription, cause it makes you play it for the sub and i don't play mmos daily. And ff14 made me annoyed with crafting system, cause storage becomes super cluttered with crafting materials (they have common and fine quality which doubles the amount it takes) and you can't use crafting materials if they are in bank. So i dropped crafting scene altogether and that was a better choice -_-. But ye … subscription fee is kinda a dealbreaker.
The absolute worst thing with GW2 is that if you miss a living world season, or join at a later date you have to purchase those story chapters in order to experience it. When I started playing in Path of fire I actually got spoiled on several plot points just by completing the original campaign and then get automatically thrust into the next chapter. It was also so confusing with all new characters suddenly appearing because you didn't play living world season 1 and 2. Having all these new characters that you've never heard of like Taimi and Braham show up and the game expecting me to care about what is happening to them while having no previous interaction with them is almost whiplash inducing. It makes caring for the GW2 story so very difficult.
When I then later returned with no prior knowledge of what has happened during the PoF living world only for everyone be depressed because (SPOILER) Aurene (Who I have almost no connection to because how could I, I have not purchased all the story chapters) had died was also jarring, for one, It also spoiled me on what has happened and I got those conversations almost as soon as I logged in. Terrible for people who want to try and enjoy the GW2 story.
More them 1hour video without going to details , imagine if it had them 😂
unsubscribing now 😛
For me it is and always will be GW2 but it just fits my playing style. I'm not a hardcore player and more casual, so for me GW2 is great. Also, I was complaining about the questsystem in Wow already and I absolutely adore the open world approach in GW2. I actually tried Final Fantasy, but I could not get into it. I uninstalled it again, after an hour or two, because I was already so fed up with the questing and just did not enjoy the early game at all.
Also, personally, my end game has to be leveling up more characters. I just love the world exploration and everything, so yeah. GW2 is kinda made for me. 😀
What I do miss in GW2 is certainly player housing and pet fights. but yeah, can't have it all 😀
It might just be me since I rarely see anyone else complain about it but one thing that I think is a huge weakness of GW2 compared not just to FFXIV but most other RPGs, including GW1, is immersion.
I think my main problem is how small everything in the maps feel. When playing GW2 I almost never feel like I'm in Tyria and more just looking at a representation of it. I would like to see a GW2 where everything except the characters is scaled up by 10 or 20%.
There are a myriad of other things that I think contribute to this lack of immersion but it would take forever to figure out what they all are let alone write them out.
Basically what I'm trying to convey is that whenever I play another game and then come back to GW2 there is something that just feels off and I can never get as immersed in it as I can with other games.
Both games have their big and low moments so in short my experience with them:
PVP: Both games are bad at it. GW has a lot of option, but feels empty most of the time and people focus more on the objective than the PVP element. FF has smaller scale of PVP, but the tab target system limits it heavily.
PVE: FF focus extensively on it, as GW is lacking in this department.
Story: GW started a lot better with multiple story options, but got worse as the time passed. FF was horrific at the beginning, but exceled as it is the main focus.
Classes: GW has variety of different builds, but the classes feel the same from gameplay perspective (Boon/Condi/Power). FF doesn't have builds, but every class feels and plays differently.
Mounts: GW hands down the best mount system. FF is generic.
Crafting: GW is Generic. FF have classes with skills and story.
Open World: GW hands down best open world with quests and live events, but currently only playable for the end meta maps. FF is generic in that department.
Very interesting comparisons. I played GW2 from launch to about mid Icebrood Saga, and FF14 from late Stormblood and have since ended up pretty much just in 14 on the MMO front (sorry Yoshi I guess I'm tempered). In the end I've mostly felt that GW2 tries to be different for its own sake in many respects, which sometimes works for it, and sometimes doesn't. For instance, as someone who tends to really like making my characters fantasy elves, GW2 never really had anything for me (sylvari just ain't it, chief) so I ended up defaulting to human which I tend to find boring and has kept me from feeling investment in my character(s), contrary to my XIV or WoW characters.
I still prefer GW2 by a huge margin. I can't deny I would like more content but that is the price of a subscription. Yet I'd still rather have the freedom to leave the game for a few months and come back rather than feeling like I have to okay and if I don't, being so far behind because of gear progression. But I can Def agree they have a different target demographic
Really good points, I hope you'll do some story related videos once you finish with Shadowbringers. For me GW2 had better storytelling, simply because it went by way faster, in FFXIV I just don't have the patience sometimes in the MSQ to listen to Tataru talk about freaking tea and horrible bread. And because of this I only did the stories in chunks whenever I was in the mood to be bored by endless walls of text. Don't get me wrong, a lot of the main story elements are so damn good, Emet was the best character I've seen in a while and I ugly cried like a little bitch when I finished the new Ultima quest line.
I was also surprised by your ultimatum, especially when you didn't finish the current expansion; for me the thing that kept me playing the game were the absolutely amazing way trials play out, the bosses in this game are so much fun, such a spectacle and the music is out of this world. The slow pace made me despise the game in beginning and I think that made me push through was wanting to obtain certain classes, like MCH and getting them to max level for the skills, but I am glad I suffered through all that, I feel like I've earned it. I like GW2s combat more because of customization but at the end of the day… I just have to say I'm on the same page with you as to which game I enjoy more, as much as I like GW2.
FF14 seems like a better game overall. I prefer GW2 and I could not stand how FF14 felt when I tried it but it's just not for me.
GW2 isn't the best MMORPG ever but it's the best one for me and I just hope it can do even better.
Good review, watched all of it. You have a tendency for polarizing language which might alienate softer minds, but I really appreciate how much work you put into this. I'm sure this isn't the most efficient way to make money on YT, but you do it regardless, because it's your passion, so thank you.
Regarding other points of comparison for a review:
Very important nowadays is to take a look at developers/designers/company making the game. If you didn't know anything about their games at all, which MMO would you rather want to try based on how the company and the people working there act, WoW or FF14?
I couldn't get into FFXIV, just the whole system feels like huge steps backs. I loved the damn music though and the story. At least the stories that the expansions brought. All I play now is Guild Wars 2 and New World. New world needs work but damn. Its a beautiful looking game.
This is before I watch this vid. But I stopped FFXIV after I had wandered from WoW. FFXIV is just a better WoW, a theme park mmo. IT does alot of things better but it was still the same style of game. I needed something different so returned to GW2 after a long hiatus. I need something that isn't WoW or FFXIV.
I want to love GW2. For the things it excels at, it excels at as the best in the industry including non MMO's, and ultimately I do value a beautiful world above all else. But every time I play it, I'm just reminded what the game isn't and its a shame. It's a great side game, but it's hard to play it as your main game which isn't the space it is competing with. Also I think features they tried to market as ground-breaking and great game design really worked against the game in reality.
XIV feels 5 years older than GW2 and clunkier in a lot of ways, but somehow it is this gift that keeps on giving and there's this optimism amongst the playerbase that the best is yet to come even after sinking 1000+ hours into it. There's a lot of fluffy aspects to the game, but the game just throws so many gems at you kind of just want to come back for more. I'm a strictly solo player, and I appreciate that the game mandates you having to do group content, they set this expectation early on so the player base learns mechanics they'll experience again in later content.
Rag on XIV's dated UI all you want, but it's muted aesthetic is there to emphasise the spectacle that the game is. GW2 (and New World similarly)'s UI I feel was designed with dopamine hits in mind in that it almost feels like its a casino which I can't stand, perhaps its my distaste of mobile games design creeping into PC games.
Build craft is cool and all, but I'll take the ability to experience everything in the game in one character any day for any MMO now. It changes the way you absorb content in the world, because you are now playing a character instead of a class/build.