Hey guys hope you all liked this I REALLY wanna know what you guys think about it. From video to title I am a bit scattered on this but Its something I really wanted to make and have out there!
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About the massive storytelling in MMO:
I get your point. As I understood it from your argument, wanting to play an MMO is automatically matched with expectations about community driven progression that should not hinder your involvement with said community by locking off core features and progress behind a large storyline. And, of course, some players simply dont like to invest into a huge storyline and rather enjoy mechanics and challanging gameplay. A totally legitimate opinion to have.
The thing is, I simply do not agree to the statement that a huge and mendatory storyline would clash with an MMO. Gaming in general is categorized by genre-like definitions, such as for example Rouge Like, RTS, FPS and MMO. In the past few years we had the pleasure to play some new genre defining titles that completly changed the communities perception on the genre itself. On the one side, games like Hades managed to implement continues storytelling into an rogue like! On the other side, the MMO genre has been kind of on the stand still for some years, with World of Warcraft having the reputation of stomping competition to the ground with their conveniently chosen release dates. However, this does not work anymore. Square Enix simple made the investment with FF14 that many players wanted to see in the genre for YEARS. Inovation in gameplay AND storytelling. Something WoW more and more struggles with. So, storytelling in an MMO should not be dismissed outright and instead be looked upon as a missing ingredient that will enrich the overall gaming experiance of an MMO. I dont want my games to feel like slot-machines… 😀 I dont want publishers to ignore the RPG part of my MMO RPG.
As I commented on another video about this topic:
I dont believe this discussion (WoW vs FF14) is something that spawned purely in the FF14 community. The perception of many veteran player in the WoW community is that the game they grew up with has become an unhealty and sometimes unsocial mess. A lot of those players then try out FF14 and discover this "breath of fresh air". They see the community of old WoW still alive in FF14 and then try to drag friends and streamers into their game. Especially, once they discovered from an outside perspective what WoW is doing with its playerbase. If I now think back on all the raid preperation I had to do and the guild drama afterwords… DEAR GOD! Never again… . I loved WoW. It needs to change. And the best way to do that is showing a massive movement towards FF14.
This is probably the same for bellular. In the past weeks he had mostly negative things to say about WoW and is faced with his whole guild switching to FF14. I think you can hardly ignore that…
tldr; WoW vs FF14: It is a dicussion driven by former WoW player to current WoW player.
One thing I notice about WoW fans that come over to FF14 is you guys do not even bother to say the entire thing anymore. It is MMORPG. Three times you only said MMO and not the RPG part. There is a reason we were excited to chase Illidan through the dark portal and there sure as hell was a reason why so many us were hyped to go fight Arthas that we put up with a 9 month content drought waiting on ICC.
Out of FF14 my entire playedtime is maybe 200 hours on story and that is including multiple jobs to 80. The other 2,000+ hours is not even related to the story stuff. It is 7 years worth of story that was dripped out over 2,555 days.
Everything you seem to enjoy is tied to player power and man WoW really is the MMO for you. There was a time when that was not the major focus of WoW and you logged on just to have fun with people and interactions. It is so sad to see how low WoW has set the bar for you guys and what you have accepted as just normal. I get what you want but FF14 is made up of a large amount of people that left WoW for all of the reason you listed why you like it.
What is honestly funny though is the FF14 hardcore raid community really sounds like you and they do basically raidlog lol
Fair enough, its always what do you want from an mmo and what game does it better for ya.
" I feel like the focus on being defensive or adversarial with anyone who doesnt enjoy something the way you do is kinda an unfortunate was to act as a separates a community and stop the developers from wanting to move forward"
I think this quote right here from you describes a permanent cycle of what a massive community describe as a "trash" game. Someone will always be there to post a new forum thread about how the game is bad with ANY change that is made. When you have a game with multiple different avenues of enjoyment (lvling, dungeon grinding, pvp, raid, role playing, professions, loot collecting, etc., if you lessen any one of these avenues to make room for another, that vocal minority is going to shift and change. I think it is very important that developers listen to their community and make adjustments to their development, but i believe it's even more important to still have an overall vision for the game and where they want it to go and actually SHARE that with the community. If youre constantly just changing your game based around what those are complaining about in forums, your game is going to be a never ending cycle of a mess because like I said, someone will always be there to make a new thread about how the game is trash. One thread closes, another will open.
It's kind of a bigger problem with MMO's because
1) MASSIVE player base (massive is literally in the acronym MMO) and
2) Like I said before, there's SO many avenues for enjoyment in these types of games (AND THERE SHOULD BE! it's essentially an online world you can login and escape reality from, so doing whatever u enjoy is important! (especially if ur paying $15 a month :/ ))
unlike games like League of legends where if u buff a certain champ, those that main that chmap will be happy, and if u nerf another those that main will be sad, but overall the players shift and just go w/ the meta and find new champs to play. In Valorant, you buff and nerf weapons so if people complain about things its usually dps or accuracy or spread or w/e of certain weapons. Point being that if one of those other styles of multiplayer games makes a change in development, it typically makes one half happy, the other half sad. In WoW, or MMOs in general, instead of looking at the player base like "halves", it would be more like looking at it as a 8 or 10 piece pie.
storytelling in MMO is important but maybe should not be mandatory. But what it does well it gives meaning to encounters and world around us. Every boss fight would feel empty to me without storytelling they did for them massively impacting the enjoyment of encounters for many. It's not as straight forward as you say that storytelling and mmo content are disconnected.
Holly hell, even my shlongs?
Shite takes, to be honest. If you are raid logging in FFXIV you are missing a good portion of the game. I spent 12 hours yesterday just playing music as a bard, for example. WoW is great for end game, competitive e-sport ladder etc. FFXIV is great for everything else in an MMORPG that WoW seems to have forgotten about.
You: Long mandatory stories have no plave in MMOs
Me: Plays since 2014 to continue seeing more of the story, listen to the amazing music, take screenshots and share the experience with my friends.
the thing is: why does a 300h solo leveling quest does not fit an MMO? we're indeed conditioned to play MMO's like wow for many year and i went in with that same mind set, a slog 300h of solo content, but then again, that was how i was playing WoW leveling part, solo of just spamming dungeon queues with people that did not speak a word to me. I Have to admit the story part really grew on me, even if some of it, where i am right now, drags a bit, does not take me that much out of the MMO part of the game. WoW has fantastic lore, some really cool story bits, that are so poorly presented to the players that most don't care, if we had a story-driven leveling experience in wow i would bet people would care more about it
One of the things i miss the most in wow is class quests, My summons on my lock felt special because i had to do some really neat quests to have them, felt like i was progressing with my character, probably why i liked legion so much, FF has that, i really enjoy them, every class has a story of your character progressing through it and learning new stuff, Sure not everyone is into this RPG part, but without it what is the point of an MMORPG? There are many QoL we have in wow that FF does not have, and by what people tell me the PvP sucks ass (i'm a PvE players so that is fine for me), i just hope both stay strong games and more people are able to enjoy them
FFXIV is do good that my Dad came back to tell me that You can play through the entirety of A Realm Reborn and the award-winning Heavensward expansion up to level 60 for FREE with no restrictions on playtime!
indeed it is not only a MMO but also RPG (Role Playing Game) a character you playing in a role that saves the world(s) (FF based) that is a part that grows in me and many others out there. If you want so badly end-game stuff you just be capped on your lvl without out the leveling system. Remember that is one of big part of the RPG genre. If you wanna go right go for the action you rather play FPS games so you don't have too grinding lvls to get stronger (some FPS don't have lvling system like CS:GO). So yeah I don't get it. to right it of. The thing is I'm a FFXIV player myself but I don't right off WOW at all because there properly parts that WOW is better then FFXIV and other way around. I think I would like WOW better if they put the story in the game then in a book you need to buy it to know the story. You get rid of one Lore content that should be in the game (mine opinion). The thing is with WOW, CS:GO and many games that is connected with the Tournament sponsors is that game makers then only think about the competition content and lost focus on the casual players. There are more casual players then the competition players. So the casual players will leave because of it.
HEAVILY disagree on the story. It's the main pull for the game and most MMO's have one so why not make it good? However I do agree that there's an awkwardness to the story because of how it's framed (like fighting primals 1v1).
TLDR: FFXIV is on a massive high and WoW could learn from them. Also, this man hates games with stories.
For me, I would have zero interest in FFXIV if the story wasn't the focus of the game. I have played a lot of MMOs over the years, and they all bored me, the story was my biggest criticism, they often didn't have much of one, so it was difficult to get invested into anything I was doing.
I respect your take and find a lot of the points you argue interesting, but I think the reason why many people (probably the majority) are fine with the vast amounts of hours of solo content and the story is because they see it as I do. A Final Fantasy game that just happens to be a MMORPG. These are the things that FF games are mainly known for. Very long over the top stories and solo centric content. I think you make a fair point that MMORPG's should have a big focus on the MMO part and I think FFXIV still does that, but its just that the solo content side of it is that much more massive hence why it doesn't feel like a MMO when you're going through the story. It doesn't help that the MSQ is pretty much a wall to many of the game's features.
I don't know, I guess that's just the way FFXIV is. It's a RPG first and a MMO second, and honestly I think its fine for what it is. Nice video dude!
Without a story, it a MMO would be just another Battle Royal or another Live Service, BDO or ARK or Rust or Dayz or anything else clone.
Both wow and ffxiv are called MMORPG cause people want to play with others and have a story too play too with content that is not restricted on how many you can actually play with.
But both brands have something they were always good for, WoW was always focused on war and built up from a small multiplayer game between friends.
FF was built up from its range of single player stories and icons and made its own universe on it.
The thing with final having logged 172 days of playtime last I checked, and this is how the devs think of ffxiv. It is first and foremost a final fantasy game, the mmo is second. The story is what has kept me In the game as long as I have been, and it’s not for everyone. More recent players think arr is a slog to get through but arr is what hooked me into the game in the first place. While wows lack of cohesive story couldn’t hold my attention past like level 15 I think. I think saying story doesn’t really fit in a mmo isn’t really correct, if bdo had a better story with it’s graphic quality I bet it would be a massive mmo.
Square enix always stated that FXIV was a final fantasy game first and mmo second, so that's kinda on you not them.
I think your opinions are so flawed, I think you resent people liking ffxiv. All I see is people having fun enjoying a new world. Nice touch capitalizing on the algorithm. I played ff11 and that mmorpg was also heavily story based. There is an entire mmo experience past the story it would not be this popular if it was just 200 hours of story.
I agree with some of what you say. And yes WoW and FF14 are both mmo´s but WoW ist a Competitiv-Raid-MMO and FF14 is an MMO-RPG. WoW would work completle without a Stroy. FF14 needs the Story to work. Both Games have Fans that prefer one over the other. I played both Games and i Like FF14 more than WoW and i say that WoW-Raiders should stay away from FF14 because they probably don´t like FF14 where you should´t rush throug the Story.
The thing is that WoW's devs don't want the game to be fixed and they actively HATE you for suggesting that you know better than them.