This is going to make a lot of people angry.
Good. Give me ALL THE ENGAGEMENT!
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#FFXIV #Endwalker #pandaemonium
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I very much disagree about P10S but I always respect that level of hatred. Not gonna try to argue against you cuz I'm sure you've heard it all by this point. I agree about bonds 3 being overly precise though. One slight point of contention is that as someone that has done this fight as tank, not getting the angle right on the towers is definitely a skill issue. The markings on the ground make it very consistent. PF tanks though……yeah I feel you
Funny to hear how different roles would react to things differently. Double curtain call at the end of 4S2 was incredible to heal, as I was trying to juggle resources that were dwindling over the course of that incredible duration of consistent raidwides.
I personally disagree with your opinion on p10s and p11s. To me p10s was very fun, where my main issue was the tower soak for m1 and m2 being ever so slightly too far away to be able to use jumps without going out of the aoe. While p11s was just…really boring, slow and repetitive with nothing going on for almost the entire fight.
finally somebody putting P10s where it fucking belongs.
Edit: also finally somebody who realizes S ranks should have MAX 3 units and not more
L Take Doesn't elaborate
Q seems like the intended strat for both caloric
you are forgiven for disliking Anabaseios: The Actual Fall Guys Event (Savage) because you're correct about p8s
I disagree with your opinion about p10s, since I freaking loved this fight both on melee and a tank, however it's your tier list, and I understand why peeps might hate it. Great video, Wesk!
everything about p10 sucks
1. tank fly buster is dog
2. web bridges is dog
3. 124 debuffs is dog
4. towers laser snapshot is dog
5. building a wall is dog
6. HH is honestly, the most dogwater mech out of them all
its only hard because what? the healing check? so you do what? throw every cd out? literally the cheapest way to make anything difficult
honorable mention:
>make web bridge
>tank crosses bridge
>tank stuck on the bridge???
>tank is now stuck under the damn bridge in the green poop???
>????
I was certainly one of the tanks who really really really struggled with P10s' spots and basically had to find my own way of calculating the spot and be consistent with it, and I really do agree with your points on the fight – how it's so hard, so needlessly precise, how it asks so much of you… BUT, BUT, that's what makes it the best fight in the tier, imho.
The feeling of progging that fight for two days on the first week and finally, finally getting good enough to do all those shot-gunned mechanics felt amazing. The pacing is so very fast, it makes my heart race every time you need to do binds with the cleave, and if it wasn't for the way Towers snapshot the players, it'd have been the perfect fight in the game, to me.
Of course, we look at different things when it comes to enjoyment, which is why I disagree with some of your other opinions here: Pinax was great (Same reason as why P10s was great), Gorgon 2 was also great.
A lot of the issues I had with this tier was that, at least on tank, I'd sleepwalk through most fights, especially P1s, P2s, almost all of the 2nd tier and P11s.
P9s to p11s are so far my first ever on expansion savage clears. Never raided before. I feel like I can throw myself at anything now
I want to do 12 but starting fresh in pf is kinda a nightmare, i will only be able to learn and clear it with a static
I LOVED both phases of P4S, the first phase is def just based on how much you enjoyed pinax, which I definitely did, but with it being like half the fight, its gonna be a huge variable. I really enjoyed all the acts for phase 2, and liked the enrage sequence with curtain call, it happening twice means the heals and mits are spread so wide that you really have to plan it out, and makes for a long stretch of nerves on an initial run, while also anchoring the feeling of length, such that is cleaner reclears when you kill the boss earliuer and earlier into this phse and it feels satisfying knowing you only got him to do it once and the like. (I might be biased since asphodelos was the first savage tier I healed so having a tight heal check like that I had to really think about stood out more to me, but I also really liked tanking for terminal relativity, I just really like enrage sequences, they also help future proof against power creep for the actual mechanics.)
I really think P10S would be a great fight if they added like 25% more time to a bunch of the mechanics before they go off. Conceptually they're fun, but you have to move SO FAST. Oh and make the solo/duo/four stacks not instantly kill you if you mess them up, to make it so it's possible to live through them with mit if you're missing someone.
As my first savage tier, P10S was the most fun I ever had in this game.
I hope they make more fights like this one 😊
???
I'd give my thoughts on the Pandaemonium fights, but I've only ever done the Normal versions (of which, I only dislike P2N and P3N (both for more personal reasons)) so it wouldn't really be relevant to this video.
i can honestly totally understand the p10s hate, as i flip flopped on it being my least favorite or favorite fight of the tier, but in the end i think its honestly my favorite fight in the game, at least when everyone knows what they are doing. the movement and damage are just tight enough to feel amazing when everything works out, and its probably the most fun fight of anabaseios to tank in my opinion. there are some really interesting ways to get extra uptime before the tb towers hit you depending on which tank you are playing, and the fight hits hard enough that you have to actually roll through all of your mitigation to make the fight comfier, while still being able to adjust which mit you use incase something goes a bit wrong. i will say that my experience likely differs from yours as i started the fight a few weeks after the tier dropped so i had more tome gear at my disposal, as well as joining a static right before clearing which made the fight much easier.
Huge disagree with basically everything past P8S, but also huge respect for standing by your own opinions regardless of what others would think. Really enjoyed many of the insights too. Role preference really shifts our perspective from fight to fight. Also feels like you had some notably bad PF experiences in the last tier as I've really never seen any tank having the slightest struggle with Para 1, even in fresh parties.
I don't agree with most of your takes, but I couldn't agree more with what you said about P10S. I cleared the tier week one, cleared every ultimate, done hardcore parsing and speed killing, and can safely say P10S is the hardest, most frustrating fight I've done. It has all the same failings as P6S and P7S, but has an ultimate level of precision that those two fights don't have. Never have I been more confused by the raiding community than I did after clearing the tier and seeing how much people were praising it. A fight being difficult doesn't make it good. DSR is good because it's well designed AND difficult. P10S feels like an old arcade game that was made to eat quarters.
kokyotos as the first s rank??? no wayyyy
The colorblind accessibility issues is definitely a big obstacle for some players. I tried to teach a friend P1S bc it was an easy gateway drug into savage raiding and he did fine until we discovered the very little contrast between the teal/orange checkerboard pattern. That did not jive well with his red-green colorblindness.
Harrowing Hell is the primary reason I found P10S actually enjoyable (yes, even in PF) as a healer, but then again I'm one of the weird healers that actually want to heal instead of spamming dps!
E11S was similar, I absolutely love fights that make me heal more.
Never did P12S, but hot damn P11S was agony in PF after the first couple weeks, people just did not understand Dark and Light. Any party that had a prog point listed past D&L was really just D&L in disguise, if that. The fight itself is good, legit good. The people makes it bad.
Lmao he sures love to ba a contrarian
Question about p10s when the web bridges are there can you use movement skills across the poison? Cause i swear i did it several times on ninja.
I find it interesting how polarizing p10s is. you put in in f tier and others think its a very good fight and put it in s tier. I only started raiding during the last tier so this was my second savage fight ever. I thought that all savage fights were like after the first fight in the tier and they started to ramp up the difficulty but I guess this is an outlier. I feel like what you mentioned the precision of the fight is one of its greatest downsides like with the laser mechanics and the tanks launching themselves off the platform. it got so bad in pf at some point I saw pf listings threatening to kick tanks who joined if they missed the launch too many times.
I think P10 is super interesting mechanically. It's just that the mechanics snapshot way too early and could use maybe one second more for bonds. The mechanics are wayyyy too hard for pf to do and harrowing hell is has a really akward placement since tanks most likely need to use lb3 which means the pull is over if someone died to the stack spread after. P10 had potential but mechanics are too punishing for pf
Lol. You are allowed your opinions! Here's mine: since tanking is so homogenized, I want Tanks to be able to talk about a fight to each other, where everyone else has no clue what they're talking about. P1S tankbusters, P2S Coherence, P3S tethers and magic damage off tanking, P5S venom swaps, P10S fly through the air. Those are the things I want to see. DPS has the rotation while doing mechanics, and healers have the communication partnership. Unique mechanics should be a tank thing!
The only other thing I'll say is that the damage down strat of P1S was fine the first four weeks. During those times, people just want to work on the later fights and tier clear, so nobody cares about parses. I dunno if you remember, but the first strat had all 8 people rotating for the mechanic based on this infographic. Getting PF to do that was just never going to happen. After week 4, there was enough information about the mechanic where it was only 1 person swapping. Then it became viable for swapping. I hadn't seen a single streamer screaming that the damage down was stupid arguing that the 8 person movement was better. They only started arguing about its stupidity after the 1 dps and 1 Tank swap existed. Then they were screaming "it's so easy!!!" Nobody was screaming , "It's so easy, everyone starts in their assigned position, and if it's top down then the dps take the support spots while the tanks and the healers rotate clockwise into the dps spots; unless it's bottom first which is the easy pattern, but if three equal gems are the bottom then we all rotate clockwise but then everyone has to do a cross pattern." That strat didn't even last week one, everyone just took the damage down.
P10 is 100% the worst and most dreaded fight in the series fuck spooder castle
I think p10s might have been ruined for you by your role–it gives an incredible amount of responsibility to supports between the buster towers, laser towers and HH. As someone who tanked and healed it it was incredibly fun, but I can understand the frustration if you're doing your job as a DPS and other people screwing up ends up wiping you.
However, that kind of frustration is necessary for fights to be really fun for support mains. High levels of mechanical precision like tank towers with a simple rotation is more fun to me than low agency and a complex rotation. People often say that DPS is low responsibility but it's not, you need to do damage or you'll hit enrage. What DPS is is low agency–you do not make as many choices that can get people immediately killed if you choose wrong. Some people like that about DPS, and its what I personally dont like about it. Conversely, people that want to play tank and healer in hard content want to be challenged in that particular way, and their failures (which are a part of prog) will be frustrating to those with less agency over the fight than them.
Week 1, when DPS checks are as tight as they ever will be, something like fat fingering an early mirage dive might be as deadly to a clear as a missed tank tower, but the tank's failure is immediately obvious while your mistake is only clear 10 minutes later when you die to the 1% enrage. P10S was incredibly demanding on supports, but learning to rise to that challenge was the most fun I had in the entire tier.
I did also start skipping it in reclears though because yeah especially as time went on pf became abysmal at doing it. The good days were so good though.
I enjoyed P10S. Cleared as healer, caster, ranged phys, and melee. One of the few real heal checks we've gotten… even if Tank LB became the PF standard. I agree that the level of precision necessary was a bit much, though. There were some tower placements that required immediate movement, or using sprint. As ranged, I'd usually have to move toward the worst case scenario spot, and then adjust to the easier spot once I recognized the pattern.
Also, there were far too many times when 4 people were standing together for the 4 stack… and 3 died, while the 4th took no damage. The fight was too precise for the server tick. The fight was, at times, too tight for my ~75ms midwest US ping. Wouldn't be enough for me to put it in F tier, though.
But hey, these are opinions and preferences. So you're not wrong, I'm not wrong, and we can go about our days without worry.