VIPER RANT!!! Honestly just wanted to give my thoughts on this seemingly completely random and unnecessary change they decided to drop on us the same week as savage. How do you guys feel about the Viper changes?
Music Used:
Burning Temple – 30XX
Ebony Wings – Castlevania Order of Ecclesia
Squid Addler – Megaman X5
Mall Meltdown – TMNT Shredder’s Revenge
Staff Roll – Megaman X
Outro Song:
Tengu Man Stage – Megaman & Bass
Additionally, If you like the content and want to support me:
https://ko-fi.com/bigbluepurple
source
100% agree. I wasn't as worried about the changes on paper but when I got into game and started playing the job it just feels like shit now compared to how it felt before the changes.
Viper didnt have any thought process behind it before the change either. The debuff was maintained essentially automatically just by doing your rotation, playing it after the patch I can say literally nothing has changed with how the job feels to play.
yeah this job sucks now 🙂
What's actually fun about managing the debuff? There's no satisfaction or visual feedback or anything for doing it. It's just tedium. Reaper at least got rewarded for enemies dying under the debuff where VPR got punished if mobs died too fast after applying debuff
Sword monk isn't fun anymore. Going back to fist monk. At least it has an unpredictable OGCD that's fun to press.
Ok, like yeah they kinda did just remove 100% of any management gamplay from the job,
but uhh.
Yeah i got nothing. I did like the little management i had with the decision of "should i use dreadwinder, continue my combo, or use my burst button (yk what im talking about)". It wasnt all that impactful if i fucked up and overcapped or dropped a buff like once a full moon but i still liked it.
Now it gone.
Sucks, But It Is What It Is.
Ill still play it cause its my oc's out of game weapon.
Now my cope take is that I hope they increase the number of positionals for this job to make up for those changes 😈😈😈
Im the most casual player you will ever met and I got bored of Viper due to simplicity. I dont think I’ll play it again after this change.
this expansion is just a big L
When I read the patch notes yesterday morning I was so disheartened. Viper is the first Dawntrail job to get a Shadowbringers rework.
Unsubscribe. That’s the only way they’ll get the message.
I tried VPR right after the patch in Expert roulette, and I kept forgetting to use stacking combos, before I remembered to use them to keep Gnashing up but now I guess not having the debuff timer on the enemy reminding me just makes me go I forgor lol
And picto not nerfed
Idk if they are even "cooking" in this expansions.
There has been more fails then in any other expansion. From msq to balance…
I read the notes, i didn't have to relearn my rotation, so i dont care.
Definitely not a rework, that's just making a mountain of a molehill. There is an issue of buff overcapping, which why they removed buff from monk bc mnk would buff cap. Imo, there's no different in the skill required to manage between putting a debuff on a target(s) vs putting a buff on yourself as both are braindead easy to manage. I will say that there is a flavor loss and a significant damage loss from swapping the debuff to an enemy buff for sure. That said, I think the issue is a little overblown. I say this as a lifelong monk main and professional monk hater whose job is destroyed every expansion lmao
Bruh, no, they removed rhe whole mechanic from DRG by removing Dragon Gauge. Really wish it was just Dragon Sight, but nope). All complexity, all possibilities that mechanic gave are gone now.
phys range gang STAY winning mch and bard(i should play dnc but its only at 90 cause i bought the skip :3) are still good from 90 with just slightly more which honestly i prefer for saftey reasons till 8.0 when the big job changes come
From 2 brain cells needed to play to 1 brain cell needed to play 😂😂
I like the changes. The debuff was more of a hassle than a boon.
They always have 1 poster child job each expansion that is broken OP on day 1 and they bring up all the other jobs to be near it afterwards. This time it was PCT. I also feel like SE pays very close attention to their official forums and there were lots of complaints that VPR was too difficult to play. With PCT being mindnumbingly easy to play, you'd think they would have left VPR alone but nope, they made it easier! Might as well remove positionals too.
Love how it was so crucial to him as part of the job but he didnt even get the name right
Applying a dot slows the job down, if reaper didn't have deaths design it would just keeping upping its ceiling. Viper offers no buff meaning it needs to keep increasing ceiling. It also does not have as a high as burst as other jobs. It simply helps it continue to GO without slowing it down, overall this was a good change this is a hot take tbh. The moment you apply a dot that does hardly any dps that's a loss every single press forcing viper to cascade down to 2200s.
Bro really made an 11min video defending a a useless debuff that literally did nothing to the gameplay but expose bad vipers (which were the vast majority of viper players), good, remove death's design next.
I’m sad I never got the chance to experience any combat with Viper before the changes. I was looking forward to having to manage the debuff, but I unlocked the class just before the maintenance and then hopped off the game.
Keeping up debuffs just like Reaper is not a fun game mechanic.
Imma keep it a buck: The removal of the debuff doesn't do much of anything. Yeah, having to manage a debuff was nice, but the reason Viper is so braindead is because your hotbar is just barren compared to other jobs. It was really the only thing you had to manage, realistically. Viper has no temporary/conditional buffs, no utility, no defensive, no real having to worry about buff alignment outside of Double/Triple Reawaken and a super flexible Rotation that doesn't really care for downtime, deaths and such. Samurai for instance: you get 1-2 GCDs of downtime (specially now) and now you have to work overtime to get all your stuff aligned with your Bana and burst again. Viper has some management with ability charges and I think that's quite fun side of it, but it's very one note and simple. Just give the job more conditional and interesting buttons and I think we're back.
The debuff was a chore to maintain, just as it is on Reaper. Getting rid of Noxious Gash isn't bad.
My damage went up a lot with no gear changes thanks to Vipers buffs Lol. Literally beating the outskirts dummies by 20-30 seconds faster than before. It’s literally BETTER. Just hit your flanks and rears and know how to use Double Awaken properly with raid CDs and you blast. Who cares if it’s Easy. It literally brings nothing but damage. Prior version was dumb and not complex at all. Practically nothing “exciting” was changed.
Refreshing Noxious was nothing special when you ended up just not pressing Dreadfang as often because Dreadwinder did enough stacking timer and then all u did was spam steel fang opener. Now the Combo openers properly alternate with equal potency making the rotation fluid and visually more pleasing.
Your double reawaken on Noxious Gash required nothing special. It was almost impossible to have debuff falloff because of Dreadwinder, hence the buffs removal because it’s pointless.
The class “identity” is not the debuff. It’s the stagger movement of positionals, Uncoiled fury “cartridges” for always uptime if heavy movement required, and SLITHER. Vipers biggest “identity” is how good slither is. It doesn’t get enough talk.
Dragoon lost not only Dragon Sight FYI. Also the 2 Charge Jump. Thats 2 Skills entirely removed from Dragoon not just 1. 😐
I'm not a Viper Player, so can't say much about it. Just wanted to make the Comment about Dragoon abit clearer 🙂
I played and leveled Viper lv100 before these changes, but I am happy with every changes that was made it the recent patch.
Viper debuff really wasn't that big of a deal to manage I feel, heck I barely pressed that red button to put the debuff since the 30sec other button applied it (I cannot recall the skills name sorry…)
In EX or raid I can see it being less interesting, since its all single target anyway, but for dungeons mobs, as exemple of multiple ennemies, reapplying gnashing gnash was just unfun or "oh im mid combo, can't break it, but the debuff..", Per say I had to aoe to break my rotation so I could restart on my 1 of combo was weirdly unatural.
also maybe cause I haven't played enough of it, due to Oroboros being same button as Awoken and the animation of the hit is kinda delay, I sometimes would dobule press my burst without wanting to, but can't reaply the debuff while in it so..
They could of made so the debuff was given differently, but then would it just be like Reaper?
Now it feels too much like Samurai? but faster?
I see the removal of the debuff more like a quality of life and I enjoy the job having a rotation now. Yes its just clicking the glowy, but it'll make leveling Viper and understanding the job a lot better. I sure hated leveling it, took me a while to understand, I think it'll be better now.
I think the removal is also point that Viper should work in ALL content. Apparently in TEA viper was doing atrocious, I'd assume now its better since they don't have to slowy reapply a debuff on jag doll, Living hnad/liquid, Alexander after downtime and PA after downtimes.
im rambling again I know…
Short: Me like Viper now, a good change of pace for other melee, I shall still break my combos/rotation cause I'm no melee player…
I dont miss Kaiten
and uh ye
Sorry if I sounds like a complete contrarian, people often tell me… I guess I just enjoy things that might be more of hotakes for other
its not that big of a deal stop whining!
Drk players: First time?
Viper is essentially the summoner of melee dps. Literally just press the glowing button.
the snake has lost its fanga it seems XD
My damage per fight when up but at what cost…
viper didn't need changes, but the potencies seem to lead to a overall damage increase for the top personal dps class. Vipers still eating good
Managing the debuff was not interesting so this change is honestly not bad. I do wish the class had something else to manage instead though
Not only do we no longer have to balance a debuff that forces us into a weaker rotation, them spreading it out across the kit gave us a 2.5% DPS increase. the Viper changes are objectively a good thing. I see very little people actually liking debuff management, most people I see on a variety of different forums hate it
"No longer any thinking in your rotation" There wasn't any thinking in the rotation to begin with what are you talking about?
I felt vpr was my favorite job. It was simple but felt really busy. Now vpr feels boring. Debuff removal means combo just boils down to 111 222 and you just press dreadwinder when you have it. Feels like all the small decision making it had is gone
Squeenix will continue to appeal to the whiners on the forums who don't do anything other than dungeons and trials. Color me surprised
I feel you… now they are talking about a rework for BLM and it was fine back in EW. They broke it in DT and now they want to rework it, well I am willing to bet their "rework" will be get rid of the Enochian timer which is the only fail point of the class. This 100% would be a non-starter for me and I will probably be quitting the game. Their issue is they want to raise the floor and lower the ceiling of class performance because the really casual pos players want to feel "skilled" without even trying.
wish people would complain about lion heart so it can be a 1 minute CD like DK new combo
This was one of those youtube recommendations from a channel I've never heard of, but I decided to take a peek at this video.
The immediate 30XX music tells me that you have good taste.
I like it.
A lot of people have been saying this doesn't really change anything… but please consider!
It was imperative to re-up NG just before beginning re-awakening burst, and also to save dual-blade combo near burst phases to safely re-apply GN for the following coils near the end of buff phase. Removing the debuff means you no longer have to prep or save resources before your burst phase, which was akin to saving job gauge on SAM or holding wyrmwind thrust when buffs were coming back up.
Having a button to press and knowing you need to save it is extra job complexity. Needing to press a button before a critical timing in rotation is extra job complexity, and the removal of noxious gnash has removed this on all fronts. The job was always "press glowing button if you dont care to pay more attention" but now its "just press glowing button lol"
I have yet to determine if they are good or bad yet. My viper is only 81 at the moment.
It sounds like he was mad about dragoon then got mad about viper losing its obnoxious debuff 😂
Bros such a doomer
Personally I don't see the problem here. DoTs/Debuffs don't add dynamism to a rotation, the job still plays the same. If you would ever lose that debuff at anytime then that means the rotation isn't the best one. The way 14 is designed is that you're not building a character, or even a toolkit, you're building an already optimized rotation. God help you if you deviate from it post ShB as that'll be a large DPS loss. This is coming from a guy who's mained DRG since all the way back in 2.x. When the job had one buff, one debuff, and three DoTs it had to keep up. 11 years later and it's lost all but Chaos Thrust but still plays exactly the same.
I've been playing SE games since 2004 with FF11, and they never keep their promises ever. Whenever they say "We'll do X" expect it to never happen, be completely underwhelming, or at best, get introduced and stop seeing updates immediately. I'm still waiting for more companions other than the GC Chocobo that SE promised for 14 back in 2.X.
Its pretty "the same" in terms of rotation, but its just 111, 222, use you vicewinder combo whenever you want, have double/triple reawaken set up by the 2 minute mark. I dont know how I exactly to feel about it, but it looks more like a "duelist/hunter" vibe than a "rattling poisonous viper" kind of vibe now. I mean it is what is I guess since that seems to be only acceptable behavior these days.