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Get rid of battle raise from ALL dps. Fight me, i'll die on this hill
With regard to Machinist they really need to figure out a way to make it less ping dependant that will probably go a long way to seeing its numbers bump over and above potencies etc
If we give the highest damaging job a score of 100, what should the scores of all the jobs be?
I don’t want to get into the weeds about aDPS vs rDPS (just include buffs as damage output), gearing priorities, fight/comp specifics, or other nuances here, just abstractly quantifying how factors like range tax, utility tax, mobility tax, and “difficulty” should affect the damage output of the DPS jobs.
I’d put BLM, SAM, MNK, NIN, DRG close to 100
RPR 99
RDM 98
MCH, SMN 97
BRD, DNC 96
Balancing a video game sounds extremely hard
As someone who has played ff14 for 7 years and never really got into raiding, are dps struggling right now? are there dps checks most compositions aren't making or how exactly are the dps struggling? or is this more about making sure everyone can agree on the balance?
Verraise tax removal when?
It sounds toxic to say this. They need to
1. stop balancing the game around those who cried the loudest (SMNs in early ShB and melees before EW)
2. get rid of the large hitbox that basically covers half the arena
3. remove or minimize "utility tax"
Like bro, if people need rez or that 1 extra mitigation from RDM to clear the endgame content, they need to get good.
Tbh, I think the ranged tax need to go away, it's such an outdated concept, just bring the numbers for casters & phys ranged up to the same as melee.
I keep getting distracted by Yung Happy in Second Coil.
Kind of sucks we have to wait till 6.28 for the ranged tax to be lessened i doubt it will go entirely but who knows just sucks that mch will probably still suck all throughout the launch of criterion but whats mew theyve sucked from what ive heard for 2 xpacs whats another couple of months going to do to the 2 existing mch players in the world yoshi p
I don't want to pay so any taxes, what should I play? LOL
all melee jobs have positionals still. they havent gone anywhere
I don't remember bard ever having positionals.
I don't think raw numbers is the answer here, reducing bosses hitboxes, and designing bosses to not allow physical dps uptime 100% is the way to go, because it adds a layer of complexity all around the game, where close and ranged dps's have to be balanced out depending on the fight.
This is definitely a different take compared with what they've been doing lately(aka, making the game easier and thought free), but I rather have more layers of complexity where a job performs or not depending more on the player.
I dont get why they can just give MCH old hypercharge back, they dont wanna buff raw damage so give them raid utility back
This makes me think will they completely divide P.Range Class into Support & P.Range with a new job added to the P.Range slot in 7.0? (Plus this overall re-analysis of the Role as a whole in 6.28 and moving forward) imo, it's just really weird having MCH there categorized with two Support heavy classes when it plays next to nothing like those; minus One Button, or at least the community views it as different from those other two classes (DNC and BRD). Dunno, lots to ponder on with the upcoming patch and moving forward into the new expansion. I honestly feel like the majority of us are just ready for 7.0 to come around as the usual "refresh" button to see what the Devs try this time with job reworks, etc. EW as a whole has been great I feel we can all agree on, but in terms of balance it's been rough as hell.
Edit: I know this is somewhat different, but I also really hope they don't "dumb down" healers even more after the "Healer Scarcity" in PFs. It's not by job design imo, it's just Healers being fed up with "stupid people" in PF not understanding mechanics, and the fact the Devs even admit some of the mechanic difficulty involved with this new tier (Healer PoV) are on the level of Ultimates which sorta did blindside a lot of the healers ingeneral. Then ya got people not understanding that and pointing the finger at Healers as if they're the problem; which isn't the case for every Healer imo, because it is a case by case situation with how each person plays their class. Some healers overheal to be on the safe side while dps'n, some try not to overheal while dps'n for the sake of good logs, etc., and then some just don't heal and/or dps enough which is just a bad healer(the first two examples being "good" healers imo). When the question of Healer scarcity in PFs came up in the 14hr Live Letter, I honestly was/am so scared for the future of Healers as a role….I do not want all of them "dumbed down" to the level of WHM at all, and wish we'd have more DPS buttons overall. But, we'll never get that because Devs won't commit to it because of the casual community. Idunno, I'm just rambling at this point lol I'm both interested and scared for the future of P.Range & Healer role(s). I'd bring up Tanks, but I do not play Tank nor care to outside of leveling. Just not my style in gameplay so I refuse to comment on it.
As long as I, as a red mage, feel like I'm not hindering a group merely for playing a red mage. By all means I can carry a lot of extremes every so often but it still doesn't feel great at times. Sure my job should be lower, but there has to be a cutoff before damage becomes a problem.
I always thought that the 5% was kind of a lazy way to do job balance. If people feel that a particular role is weak and/or not satisfying to play, they're not going to play it.
If they're going for full melee uptime fights, then the ranged tax doesn't make sense. The utility tax also doesn't make sense because monk has brotherhood, feint, and mantra, but does significantly more damage than machinist which has only tactician. So is the main tax mobility and not utility? Then you look at redmage and summoner who are taxed really hard on utility, but bard and dancer aren't taxed nearly as hard relative to machinist. So is combat res alone worth your damage being bad?
I hope they do actually fix this. 5% doesn't stop phys range from being rare af in party finder.
It's funny cause in theory it should be easy. They have to know how much uptime their QA team gets. Just give out range tax for half of that difference (cause uptime strats).
I simply do not understand why people don't just play a role that already fits what they're looking for instead of constantly begging the devs to further homogenize everything. "I wanna be ranged but I'm doing less damage waaaaa" Okay so your damage output is the most important thing to you? Play a strong job then. You already don't have the mindset that the job you're playing is based on. Same thing with healers constantly hating being asked to heal. Why don't you play a caster then, if you're basically roleplaying as one anyway? BALANCE means COMPROMISE. It's not that difficult of a concept.
I was thinking about how you could make phys ranged stronger without making them better than melee and I thought about the idea of ranged positionals. Like, what if MCH had a shotgun that did more damage at close range and a sniper rifle that did more damage at long range? Obviously, you'd need some indicator for it, but it would mean that you still have to work a bit for your damage and it would force you out of melee range at awkward points.
Please, bosses hitboxes are half the arena nowadays, as you said. Ranged being penalized is dated, but then again so is their opinion on MCH and them sticking to "ranged tax"
Im playing sam, if smn gets close to a 2% diff in dps to sam or less I would switch in a heartbeat no point in playing a caster melee
Having mailed Rdm in the past and comparing it to now after two expansions of major changes to the job, can say there is still a noticeable ranged tax on rdm. The utility they bring isn't what taxes them so much as the double cast, over all ability to gap close and retreat, and slide cast fairly easy. Along with some minor potency changes they could use a 3rd Acension charge again as there are times the inability to force a proc causes the dmg output to drift quite a bit.
Smn did get bit by the mobility tax too given it doesn't really have to worry about sticking in place anymore to cast anything other than a spell or two in the overall rotation, but they didn't get bit as hard as rdm does in damage.
While brd feels better than it has in a long time, there are times I feel it is overly taxed.
Dnc feels fairly good again too, still some things they did change I am not a fan of, but can't give good enough reason to complain about.
Mch, still just hurts to play knowing it suffers the most from this tax since the very small utility it offers isn't enough to give a good reason to why it's output is affected as much as it is. Enjoy thos job as it is fun to play, but sad it really isn't wanted due to how much it suffers from the tax given its lack of raid contribution buffs or abilities.
utility tax shouldn't even exist.
for example they say RDM should do less DPS due to having insta rezzes.
why is there a tax on it's own, the tax itself should be losing my damage for rezzing someone.
there should be some sort of "range tax" for physical range, not magical, magical have hard casts and need to know the fight enough to know where they can move before hand, but it shouldn't be as sever as it is currently, i would say around 500-900 DPS behind melee DPS, while magical should outright compete with melee.
melee have 100% uptime due to the boss hitbox and how mechanics are structured now.
Caster still have the same casts minus SMN who has literally 3 hardcasts with 1 they just swift cast with RDM having free movement every other cast.
it's hilarious that this is only coming up now by Yoshi while this has been an issue since Stormblood basically with only really BLM and SMN being the exception, with BLM always being the oddball due to being an selfish DPS (sorry MCH mains, you're technically an selfish DPS but Yoshi doesn't treat you as such) and SMN was just outrigth really strong, which it should be since it was an complex puzzle you needed to solve before it became easy. (gosh, it's almost that making hard jobs actually made people want to become better at that job)
and RDM just always suffered from the "utility tax" even though raising it literally an straight up DPS loss.
The thing about these boss hitboxes getting arbitrarily bigger is now melee jobs are essentially no different than ranged jobs when it comes to uptime leading to further homogenization. The idea that ranged jobs deal less damage per second compared to melee jobs makes sense when melee jobs have times that they cant hit the boss but over the entire length of the fight the damage numbers should balance out as melee deal high damage per second to make up for their downtimes. Overall damage per job should be balanced based on utility
i wish thy make BLM cast faster then hit harder
I just want audio changes to some bard skills to play the full sound effect for the songs and for flute skills to make flute sounds
Most meeles now have mobility skills to jump right at the hitboxes, to be honest all meeles should have this movment skill. No need to tax ranged.
I just want arcanistsummoners to go back to how they use to be, when the carbuncle used to fight with you. Summoner use to be my favorite class, now I don't even bother with it. What's the point in a summoned creature if it just stands there basically being a second minion?
1k potency drill when!!!!
I wonder if this means Blu Mage will also be adjusted as well?
The main thing that it "feels like" (putting this in quotes because it's not literally true, but it feels like it) that playing a non-melee dps feels like griefing/trolling. Caster balance is also really out of wack this tier. I disagree that BLM won't get any number adjustments at all, because if it doesn't get any that probably indicates that RDM/SMN don't get any. It's the old situation where, if RDM/SMN are too close to BLM then BLM is suddenly bad because no raise (see: Stormblood) but if BLM is too far ahead, SMN/RDM are bad (this tier). The way around this has been for Black Mage to do equal damage to a melee, but it's not doing that this tier. All of the melee except for Reaper are better than Black Mage is, which invalidates double caster comps. So the fix is to boost Black Mage up to where Samurai is at the least, and to bump RDM/SMN to a little bit below Reaper. Otherwise you're going to create a situation where bringing Black Mage feels like trolling (since it has no utility) or RDM/SMN feels like trolling (since their damage is so low). As it is now, playing ANY caster feels like trolling, since you're either mediocre damage (compared to melee) but no utility or bad damage and utility. This is especially problematic since we're probably getting a caster next expansion, and if the caster balance remains this bad going into 7.0 we're in for some real headaches.
One thing no one considers is how ranged have so little HP compared to melees. Why are we taxed on that? savage clears are much easier for melees because they don't die to the smallest damage.
Ranged/mobility/utility tax ia a excuse. The team here is utterly incapable of creating boss fights that are mutiple layered with design points that affect melee and ranged in tandem, or at different intervals.
The reason for this is this team is still hung up on a near quarter century raid philosophy that class toolkits should be the obstacle players should be overcoming against raid mechanics from each boss. They cannot move past this mindset, neither can the population. It's why the two largest dps jobs being played in this tier are SMN and DNC, because uncomplicated jobs are both enjoyable on their own and they're superior to deal with the jank raid designs square keeps pumping out.
I mean for godsakes they put out a boss with a hitbox the width and length of the platform, solely because they wanted to do a cool platform transform mechanism. This is what we're dealing with.
With Red Mage, if they take it into consideration even to begin with, the tax on having Vercure/Verraise just needs to go. Those help primarily in savage progression and are rarely used once kills are actually being made (In the event a death does happen, it's actually largely considered to be on the healer for that res if they have their swift cast up.). The things tax your DPS already when you do use them. There's the rare cases during downtime where Vercure is helpful, but not enough that I think RDM DPS should be punished for it.
There should still be a bit of utility tax there involving Embolden, Magick Barrier, and Addle mind you. But Vercure/Verraise definitely should not be included in that, if they are. Just don't feel like a job should be punished because 'It's really good at progression!'.
I was … completely unaware that this was a thing. Hmm. Guess I'll have to keep an eye on live letters more …
As you say, it could be called a melee buff rather than a ranged tax, and there's no way to balance it just right for everyone. It imagine it can be done reasonably well for savage raids, and then the rest of us can play jobs we enjoy and be fine with the small ever-changing differences. I gave up serious raiding 12 years ago when I quit WoW, where there was also higher damage for melee dps than for ranged. I visited that game again a couple years ago and that had changed. At which point people were excluding melee from some mythic+ party-finder-type groups, so removing the ranged tax created a problem.
In FFXIV, where I'm new this year and not doing anything harder than normal raids, trials, and alliance raids, it seems even more complicated, as you point out with balancing for utility and mobility and positionals. Plus many jobs don't just work from melee vs 30 yalms away. There are 30-yalm abilities, 15-yalm abilities, red mages zipping in and out of melee, a need to stand in healer AoE bubbles, ranged jobs with AoE abilities that require being in melee range. AoE abilities may not be a major factor in boss fights, but it's a penalty in dungeons to say, "oh, actually you aren't ranged for trash mobs".
In casual content, there are self-imposed skill taxes that can never be balanced. I speculate people with less skill gravitate toward range. I'm biased and looking at a small sample, but when I heal roulettes, I feel as if the players getting hit by every mechanic and needing extra emergency healing tend more to be ranged than melee. Not always, and just a theory, but I know I gravitate toward healing and ranged and casters, with the only melee job I even try to play being reaper. Just to mostly avoid positionals, long rotations, and to be able to teleport away from my bad choices or slow reactions.
There is no reason for the tax right now. In the overworld no one really kites monsters anymore because the utility skills that do it are 90% useless. You get one or two shots in and then get punched in the face.
MCH job forever 🥰