FFXIV Raiding is Toxic and That’s OK
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#ffxiv #mmorpg #toxicpositivity
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I think it's the fact that the game does nothing really to teach you how to play the game in that kind of content. Sure, there is normal mode, but that's nowhere near the difficulty of savage. So most ppl in pf (especially new players to endgame PvE content in FFXIV) just plays how the game taught they can play the game for its entirety. You'd be surprised how many ppl in pf doesn't even know the balance discord even exists or doesn't even realize their gear needs to be melded. I've seen people in savage (grant you, a very vast minority, but i still saw it) that didn't even know melees have positionals.
Because as you said yourself, the game can be played for its entirety (aside extreme, savage and ultimate content) with your brain pretty much turned off and you still win.
This isn’t really limited to FF14 but I stopped raiding in general when it turned into something more like a sport. A long time ago probably until WotlK WoW raiding was more of an event. I think FF14’s version is probably the most sports-like of its iterations as well.
Some people think having 6 kids is crazy. It's whatever works for the person.
Ive had to use shirk for the first time in 6 months. I forgot it existed. I killed so many OTs on P5S PUGs
I like to consider myself as a well rounded Individual when it comes to this game. I play everything at my own pace. I’ve been on both sides of the fence and have seen equal amounts of toxicity from both sides of the fence. There is no one side is more toxic than the other because both sides are equally as toxic. I’ve seen straight casuals beg raiders to be carried through savage or extremes so they have something to brag about later to their friends. Then turn around and label the raiders that have put a lot of time and effort in to gaining full knowledge of their own classes while crafting their own gear and potions as TOXIC all because these raiders don’t want to carry said individuals. But I’ve seen raiders be down right ruthless and kick players from their parties because their dps logs aren’t so great or whatever. There will always be toxicity it’s you who decides what is actually toxic and what is corrective criticism. If you want to raid end game you have to be willing to go in with the basic knowledge of your class or else you will get eaten alive. Someone telling you that you should have melds in your gear is not toxic. Going into savage and being asked to use food is not toxic. These are basic things a raider should be doing to help their team and their self
….what happened w/ Mr. Happy?
"FFXIV's Savage Raiding is Toxic and That's OK" Fixed the title for you. You're welcome.
As a crappy tank with an attention span of a frog, I know for a fact XIV has the most patient people I've ever seen in any game. I'll probably never pf raid week 1/2 again, but I know for a fact it's because that's an experience I don't want to have for myself, rather than pretending it's because someone told me to maybe, if I could, if I'm not too busy, provoke a bit earlier so that the party doesn't get mauled by a poorly handled TB.
With regards to actual party/gear dynamics, yeah, that's bound to get extra problematic with streamers and their public handlings.
And playing games hardcore instead of living a life that might or might not be waiting for them? That's each person's decision.
ive been raiding since ARR launch raiding is not toxic some people are ,remove the toxic element and raiding is smooth 95% of raiding is nontoxic .
I have been watching more and more of your videos recently, and I have been thoroughly enjoying your content. I play on controller so your guide videos helped smooth out the edges of my configurations and button mapping which has been great, but in particular I have been loving these talking head videos during my down-time at work.
In this video you show incredible insight; mature, rational and humble discussions on things that I think we as gamers often neglect to reflect on. It's so easy to de-humanize other players in a multiplayer gaming world such as an MMO, or even the content creators whos content we consume. I agree with everything you said on the matter and I hope that others are able to reach those conclusions as well.
And also your thoughts on content creation as a livelihood is something I think people may not realize, and while I don't intend to ever have children and therefore it isn't a reason/factor in my career choice, I considered content creation for a long time and the biggest barrier was that I couldn't make a living from it. I'd love to do it as a hobby but my other hobbies are already so time-consuming that it was always so daunting to take the plunge, and I still haven't to this day. With some relevance, a regret I have is that I didn't attempt to create content when I took a couple of years off work and school due to health reasons (I was living on the assistance of others). I had to take a lot of that time to work on my physical and mental health, but to be honest I also ended up wasting a lot of that time escaping reality through video games which at times brought out some toxic parts of me. Instead, I could have taken that time to do things I otherwise wouldn't (like now) have the time to do and grow as a person. But it's as they say, hindsight is 20/20. I eventually started therapy, worked on myself and got past most of those obstacles; now I'm working full time again and realize how much I have taken for granted.
Sorry I went on an anecdotal tangent there but basically all I'm trying to say is I agree with most of your statements and I appreciate your insight!
Hard and challenging content can lead to failing. Continuous failing increases frustration, until you reach a point where you tilt and start to get toxic. If this happens you should stop playing until you have cooled down a little bit. Maybe coma back another day. That is what I have learnt from loosing several rounds in a PvP game (Overwatch), which naturally breeds toxicity. Raiding – no matter what game and how friendly the community usually is – is no different when you fail, but with the added difficulty of social pressure: A single person that is tilting does not step away as this person should do, because of the group he is in. He doesn't want to let his group down. Maybe he even fears losing his spot in his raiding group. The only solution I see would be to stop as a whole group as soon as toxicity starts to creep in.
Use this time to analyse what was going wrong – but wait till yourself have cooled down to avoid unjustified or harsh comments towards single members of the group. Work out a strategy for your next visit. In order to increase chances of winning.
Toxicity in raiding may happen. But it is not okay to let it breed.
I mean, I agree. Best example is if I join an extreme farm party, I am not interested to waste 30-40 minute for a kill because 1 or 2 can't execute the fight or admit they forgot one part of the fight. It's like the game as markers and people still fail to go stand to their assigned spots. I understand Extreme – Savage – Ultimate is more difficult than the rest of the game, it doe shave a lot more mechanic to memorize after all. But yeah I don't have patience for those who make me waste time when the context is supposed to be a kill. I admit it is toxic, but it's same for any other game. Same happened in other mmo's I've play. And unfortunately, we are unable to criticized anyone in FF14 because everything is report-able and it's too easy to get punished. So passive aggressiveness and silent removal shine strong in FF14. Now if you want to see really toxic, try to push pvp ranking. People go all the way to try dissuade you and PM things like "Oh I suggest you go try Majong, seems more like you alley! :)"
What happened?
I been on both sides. But now I play solo with my own FC solo. Rather choose peace. But with that said I’m doing savage again after ex death but I will not deal with others pettyness over a game.
Man, what happened? I have been playing for a year and a half and I can’t resonate with any of these videos you’re making. People have been so kind in game and I’ve been having so much fun.
I'm gonna disagree on that "this community is the same as any other community" point. There are extremes on both ends just like in any community, and yeah FF players are just as capable as any other to be toxic, and FF has range of different flavors of toxicity, but day in day out, the average floor for this community has been so so much higher than the average of the other few communities I have been a part of. The people that practically salivate when a content creator makes a mistake need to step back and take a good look at themselves, just as do people that feel they have no recourse but to be toxic from Savage raiding. Still, to err is to be human, and when you get frustrated time and time again that just increases the potential for some aggressive BS to come, and not everyone is good at recognizing when they are getting to that point and taking a step back to cool it.
Still have no diea what the actual drama was that happened though.
What did mr happy do? I’m confused
So, what happened?
Sad to say it, but competition has a tendency to bring this kind of thing out of people. That urge to be "better" or "higher" than others has a way of ushering the nastiest parts of someone's personality to the surface.
This is why I'll take my little isle over Doing Ex. I get the number 1 Race but I just don't care to even enter it.
There was once this lala that kept pressing trade on me when I was trying to teleport, most toxic shit that has been done to me playing for the last 12 years 🤣🤣
More people need to see this.
insanely toxic end game player attitudes is why many of us left
This is a very level headed vid, I tend to stay away from that stuff, but I get why tempers flare. You're 100% FF14 is a bunch of people, like any other community. You're gonna have good experiences with good people, and the opposite… it's a numbers game.
like Happy, he's a smooth talker, has gud guides, gives out consistent content,..
.. he is a (hidden) elitist, but so are many HC raiders, don't judge
General rule, whether it be in game or life, you have nothing nice to say to someone, then don't say it. All it does is cause problems that aren't really necessary, more so when it comes to video games, which are a luxury and shouldn't be treated so seriously like a job.
Phew I was worried with that title 😅 I had JUST watched a clip of someone being verbally abusive and showing terrible leadership. This is different though.
I think the big thing is to just remember we’re not in those moments and can’t know everything that’s going on. Appreciate the vid man, glad I tuned in to watch 🙌
Happy should make guides afrter each kill, than go to the next fight…, and not "race" 1st clears against Xenos & co.
You so right about "first to pots" before House of the Dragon came out, this content creator with like a million subs released his spoiler review of ep 1 on a Friday when the ep was going to PREMIER on a sunday at 9pmest! Like I get that you got the ep early but bruh, that shit didn't come out for like three more days!!!! Brother couldn't wait for those clicks and to be first
Problem with making raiding so tough people will get mods to help them get through
The world as a whole has become so sensitive, and people too often label something as "toxic" to them when they themselves lack accountability for their own shortcomings. For example, going into Savage content and calling your group toxic for telling you that your gear needs proper materia and your rotation needs work. What is likely a genuinely helpful critique based on what they see in your gear and performance you call toxic because YOU'RE the one lacking, and your sensitivity only sees an attack is an issue with you, not them. Do your part to the best of your capabilities, and be open to criticism. Strive to be better. Don't tell yourself or others who are in that harder content with you that your lack of proper preparation doesn't matter just because you didn't like that they called you out on it.
Never knew what happened….what‘s with Mr. Happy issue? I do know that he‘s on with the raid group with Rin and Todd.
Wow you are the most condescending ff14 creator I've seen. And that's counting asmon, At least he is being facetious. Why don't you turn this projection inward instead of thinking you're better than everyone else.
ffxiv has a issue where it wont learn from wow raiders are the most toxic player rank pvpers themself could learn from raiders and game that cater and treat those raider like chads or bosses and listen to them over and over will end up in the same place wow is now .
What makes a community "not toxic", isn't everyone agreeing never to be the slightest bit mean to each other. It's how you see deal with the situation when someone inevitably does become toxic. It's ironically more toxic, to expect everyone to treat you like a princess, rather than thickening your own skin, and dealing with conflict like an adult.
I joined the game with that in mind, and it has been nothing but wonderful to me. But there are those I've met who do expect that unicorn game where meanness literally does not exist.
TL; DR = The main issue isn't toxicity; it's that people are too soft and/or do not value the time/efforts of others.
Honestly, I'd take it a step further. I think the issue is less that FFXIV raiding is toxic and more so that most players aren't don't want to put in the effort and/or be honest with themselves and others in regards to their level of skill and preparedness.
One major thing I've learned throughout my years on this rock, is that most people DO NOT value the time of other's. Needless to say, this is what you see in the harder content of FFXIV – the alleged "toxic" people call these individuals out for their bs, then they just don't know how to deal with it. More often than not, they simply cry "toxic" vs. actually nutting up, taking any accountability for their shenanigans, and/or making any effort to improve/reflect upon themselves.
I've seen a a decent number of people make the following claim: The hardest part of the more difficult content isn't even actually running it; it's finding people to run it. Many folks are quick to raise their hands to go do the thing(s). However, as I said prior, many people also do not value the time of others. Having said that, only a select few out of the bunch are ever ACTUALLY ready, capable, and respectful of others enough to do what needs to be done.
The community's a joke now. Time to move on.
But what is the Line Brian? Whats the point thats a complete no no ? I have being kicked out of a raid because of a racism, yes, not a joke. Apperantly some people didnt tolerate to raid with a latinamerican like me, and instead of risking on loosing 2 guys, the raid leader took the easy choise and kick me instead.
There was other time that I was pused to the limit, Literay being main tanking withouth ShieldOath ( During alexander Era), yelling me for not squishing even the small mount of dps, yelling me for not being versatile, for not thinking outside the box, Like if that was Easy?
Being constantly calling out on another group for my DPS as a tank, on a normal savage raiding team where we were doing it for the loot, not a hardcore firstworld race raid, despite tring my best, despite the TRUE dps dieing a lot, despite truly tring my best and still tring to priorise my survival as main tank and still, despite my parse is "okay", despite we I do the fight correctly and knowing all the mechanics correctly, is still not enought and im kicked out.
Is this type of toxic acceptable?
Again, im being very serious, all this were true stories.
my experience this week was rather good.
I set myself the goal to kill p5s this weekend.
I started at noon, got into the pf and wiped myself from one mechanic to the next.
first day I had to quit around after 8hours on the jump mechanic (as you can see im far from a good player).
at the end of that day I understood the jumps but wasn't able to actually put the knowledge to use anymore.
so I said my thanks, left and got to sleep.
Next day at noon I got back to it.
first few grps were the overall expected with wipes, leaves and overall just waiting in pf.
a friend joint me and shortly after the grp was filled up.
We go in wipe a few times and I prepare myself for the leaves but no, everyone stuck around.
We got to the jumps and each time more and more ppl made it through.
time starts to run out but we all got it in the end.
than something happend if never experienced in pf before- they stayed, all of them.
so we get back in after a short break and crush the jumps, we get through 2 more mechanics like it's nothing and wiped us through the fight, ever closer the end.
this kept up till times was again about to run out.
and I couldn't believe it when they said they wanted to keep going.
on our third instance in the last 12 min we actually managed to clear the fight.
it was sloppy, everyone was tired but I'll be damned we kept going and we did it.
there was some close calls with ppl starting to argue about mechanics but this showed me what a dedicated group can accomplish when they are given a bit time together.
Best experience I ever had in pf and its given me hope for the next fight.
Hard disagree, toxicity shouldn't be tolerated especially how we've seen it transpire with certain raiders who have been yelled at and verbally abused over a videogame. If you can't handle your emotions then log off, simple as. I like some of your videos but sometimes you just come off as being a contrarian just for easy clicks.
I think you don't see this in ultimates because the preformed group going into ultimates have decided to be in it for the long haul. Savage and EX though, for some reason people think that if you can't one-shot clear this content the day it comes out you need to quit the game.
let's be honest.. the reason why the FF14 community is fairly decent is because there's a sword of Damocles hanging over everyone's head. it's a known fact that if you step out of line in game and get reported the odds of a reprimand are VERY high. in general it's not a nice community.. it has the facade of being nice but in reality.. yeah, Savage and EX are very toxic. Honestly that's part of the reason I stepped away from the FF14 raid scene.. that and having played since 1.0, it's been a while, time for a break.
I main SCH and let me tell you.. it's rough. every so often you get a good cool chill group but most of the time you would think people were logging in minutes before they have a meeting with god cause it's all "Hurry hurry hurry". I'll admit I don't miss doing savage or ex content…
I have some issue's with this video, first off saying raiding is to toxic as a blanket statement is kind of erroneous, if you were talking in context for hardcore raiding and even mid core to a degree I would be inclined to agree but its not in that context. Secondly this video is mostly targeting streamers/content creators which further makes the title erroneous, I get it you need a title to get people to click so I wont pay much mind to it but it still puts a misleading context on the video. As of streamers in general I have no opinion really except that if they choose to make content creation and streaming their career then that is a bed they need to lie in, I'm not going to pretend to understand because I don't but there is zero excuse to be toxic to anyone in any game which is why I believe in a defusing period. Everyone and I mean EVERYONE no matter what they do or how important what they do is needs to defuse and take some rest away for the thing they do, its important to the mind and spirit, balance is number 1 and if you don't do this then there is a higher chance of a meltdown or letting out emotions that is usually normally processed.
Lastly the Toxic raiding you're connecting to streamers such as Mr Happy for example is a 1% problem, meaning a majority of players will not encounter a toxic experience from a streamer nor their experience negatively impacted by a streamer. I highly doubt Mr Happy is making random groups in PF and then being a dick to everyone the group he formed only to take off with all the loot, I could be wrong as I don't pay attention to that sort of thing but my point being is this problem is a non issue for most players. I do want to reiterate there is toxicity in raiding mostly in high level play and it can be a problem some times its a matter of needing thicker skin but sometimes is it 100% inexcusable and needs to be dealt with and this is why we should come forward to put these people on blast or if conformation is a problem report people being toxic. FFxiv is an amazing game and as much as I would like to say awesome things about it, I will never hesitate to speak about improvements to the game or unpleasant or unhealthy components of the game.
When I couldn’t clear A1S with my Gladiator, I never bothered to do Savage again. Thankfully that spared me from the worst of it but ultimately, it’s not JUST that raiding is toxic; it’s the spilling over of that mentality into the rest of the game that it’s toxic, a poison to be more precise.
I mean, this tier is definitely toxic
Have people not seen all the stuff Proto Carby puke out?
halfway through the video and i still don't know what sparked this lol
I’ve been playing just over a year (no kids or partner not interested in that right now as also retraining lol) but I’ve never had the urge to do high end content like savage 1) I’m average at best lmao, 2) I’ve got so much other stuff personally wise to concentrate on 3) I joined ff14 because I enjoy the rpg/ story much more, 4) there’s loads more games out there lol and stuff like that
Mr Happy? Toxic? I always got the vibe he was actually one of the MORE MELLOW content creators for FFXIV… Sure he can be a bit of a snarker but it's all in good fun from what I've seen… Did something happen???