Can you actually “block” knockbacks by standing right on them? Or is this myth caused by some misunderstanding? We test this and more here on FFXIV Mythbusters!
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Music Used:
FFXIV Endwalker – Cradle of Hope
#ffxiv #endwalker
Chapters:
00:00 Intro
00:36 (1) “Stand perfectly in the center of knockback to ignore it!” (FALSE)
06:35 (2) “Some Gear Ignores Syncing!” (FALSE)
12:11 (3) Blue Mage Avail + Paladin Cover = ?
13:16 (4) Paladin with Arm’s Length using Cover, what Happens?
13:38 (5) Does Paladin Cover also block Knockbacks?
14:32 (6) Do Chocobo Companions have a Role?
15:51 Outro
16:22 Fun Fact
source
But does cover redirect unavoidable knockback though? That can't be blocked by Arm's length naturally
This is probably only vaguely related to the video, but I actually have a reasonable suspicion that the rng in ffxiv is sinusoidal in nature (IE if you map it out on just the right timescale, you find a standard sine wave function). I'm not really sure how to test for this though, tbh. I have a few ideas but IDK how well they'd pan out.
The reasons I suspect this are twofold. One, in one of my groups p12s nights, our phase 1 clear had Athena doing consistently ≥ 1.04 on the random damage multiplier (essentially equivalent to her rolling 96 nat20s on 100 dice rolls in a row). Two, I've noticed when practicing on a dummy at certain sks/sps, I get weirdly consistent damage outputs when you take out the crit and dhit multipliers.
Technically, this is better for rng as it forces the average to be perfectly middle between the two extremes if done right (most other random number generators that I'm aware of have a bias that skews off the middle by some amount) but can also lead to the weird rng patterns we players sometimes see, which is another reason I think that's how they do their rng.
Note: For those who don't know, the game has a random damage multiplier that varies from 0.95 to 1.05 on all damage abilities (IDK if it's on healing as well tbh), including players, pets, and bosses.
The reason the other pld flew back harder is because they took 2 knockbacks. As the covering paladin will still get one if they are to be knocked back. I learned this the hard way during Exdeath prog back during Stormblood. I got curious and covered my warrior and I flew right off the southern side of the arena.
Do you think if even if the pushback does apply when you are directly centered with Right Round, that maybe the direction you are knocked back from the center is based on maybe the position you are from what the game considers the 0,0 coordinates of the map you are on?
One thing to consider is that you do keep all the stats on a relic. Like, having crit/det/minimum sps will translate to syncing ilvl. Part of why relics are ideal for legacy content. Those extra substats can add up.
I can confirm that KBs in this game are silly little things. The other day in a doomed TOP pull I rescued my cohealer at the same time they did the same to me and we both got slingshoted to the wall
What if a paladin covered someone during a purple knockback? Like in Thaleia or p10
You had made a mention to Suzaku's DPS targeted mechanic never choosing particular people: I made the same observation, there's usually some sort of fallback once the normal 4 DPS 2 Tank 2 Healer party isn't there.
For Suzaku specifically, once you have more than 4 DPS it looked like either enmity or damage dealt determines who gets targeted. I don't remember if it was the bottom 4 or top 4, but it seemed consistent and we know that this is a potential item to get keyed off of, because The Weapon's Refrain enrage picks up people from lowest damage dealt to highest, so Suzaku could easily have a default fallback seeding what people perceive as RNG.
Speaking of Knockbacks, and this is from me casually playing the game at times while doing encounters: It seems as if there's three kinds of knockbacks bosses do but you can negate some of those knockbacks just through big enough absorbs shields. Let me try to explain and hopefully get proper testing in the future on my end as well:
The three knockbacks
1: True Knockback (Meaning it does the knockback period. No absorb damage will stop it)
2: Damage Knockback (It does damage then knocks back)
3: Knockback Damage (It knocks back then damages)
I've only seen Ravana have the third version but i might be wrong on that third one existing. Anyways onto the real thing.
It seems as if the knockback type that deals damage has the same quirk as White Hole from Exdeath where if you take no damage, the following effect does not apply. They may of used the same code for Knockbacks that follow this kind of program
If Target takes Direct Damage > Push % yalms away
But if you take no damage and the shield absorbs it all, it should completely negate the knockback in the process. However many bosses do this i cannot say as i've seen this happen to me on a few random occasions where an absorb shield was high enough that i took no knockback while the others did. DRK might be best to test since it's one of the more powerful self shields at over 25% hp as a shield on demand and in higher echo content can trivialize boss AOE that deals damage.
This theory only works with Damage Knockback, not Knockback damage. I would love to hear more about this concept and if it works in the next video because if Square continues to design just as many Damage Knockback mechanics there is some cheesy potential somewhere in the future.
some secondary effects of attacks like knockback can be blocked withhp shield, but not all of them can. by that i mean it is inconsistent between bosses an attacks with the same effects which will be blocked and which won't. but if you can block a knockback bleed or vuln from a boss using a shield you can do it consistently on that specific attack on tat boss. Usually the difference is ow the attack is resolved in the code, if it is damage with a knockbck/bleed/vuln it is blockabl, but if it is a knockback/bleed/vuln with damage it is unblockable and mostly indistinguishable. I'm not sure about this part exactly but it explains the inconsistency
in a reasonable way.
one thing to also note about level sync, is that diminishing returns for stats scale with level, so in some cases the bis stats are different per level.
In some cases for casters
Higher gear with spell speed will ignore the sync, but only with spell speed
I was talking to a friend who was doing ucob as summoner, and he was being told he needs to get eternal darkness ring of casting, because the spell speed on it does not get synced down
13:38
There is a corner case. It doesn't work against the tornado's knock back in cloud 9.
I don't know if it works elsewhere, but I think the knockback claim can be tested with The Ultima Weapon quest (The Porta Decumana) where you fight first phase Gaius. If you move into Ifrit's space when he does Vulcan Burst, there is no knockback and also skips his arena's edge Radiant Plumes. It happened for me both on Duty Support and Duty Finder dailies.
u can ignore some kb if u receive 0dmg
that happens in msq ultima fight
Obviously you will benefit from the cards way more than your chocobo, but sometimes when I'm bursting (like against a FATE boss or a B-rank or something) I can pull way more cards that I could use by myself, and I'd rather play them than let them sit. Partly just because it feels better, partly because I want the Astrodyne sigils. If I have 3 cards, I'd rather give one to myself and one to the chocobo, then give myself the 3rd one when my first one wears off, rather than waiting for each card to run its full duration on me.
Edit: also if I'm in a party with only one other player, then as long as there's at least one chocobo out I can do my full normal burst window where I give 3 cards to 3 different people.
My hypothesis for the direction of knockbacks from the center pixel is this:
You will be knocked back towards/away from the origin point of the map respective to your current position. This could be tested by attempting to triangulate this point (it's not always intuitive where the origin point is) This shouldn't be too hard to test, as all you'd need to do is aggro a non-threatening mob (or even put a threatening one to sleep with acorn bomb!) and attempt the loom/right round strategy from various points on the map. If the lines of knockback converge/diverge from a specific point, you've found the origin!.
Now what would happen if we got knocked back from the origin point I wonder…
Cover does in fact double up knockbacks on a player if both they and their target are hit by a knockback. In fact Cover not only allows you to take the knockback effect, but it can even prevent knockbacks that ignore knockback immunity such as Arms Length! This is because the covered player isn't immune to knockbacks, rather since the attack is being redirected the knockback is still resolved, and thus someone is still being knocked back, it's just not the player being covered. Only attacks that ignore both knockback immunity and Cover will knock you back if you're being covered when it occurs.
Hilariously the reverse is also true for BLU mage's avail, which could be used during the beach tower event to knockback party members off the tower using the bombs that would fall near the top. This is definitely not a suggestion on how to grief your friends next Moonfire Faire.
Definitely looks like the covering PLD got hit by both knockbacks in that test. Reminds me of a time back in SB before everyone had arms length, I saved a BRD a couple of times in O5S using cover + tempered will when the ghost walls were mistakenly all destroyed.
Im actually curious, how do Vulnerability stacks interact with Cover? like if im a paladin and cover someone who has a vuln do i take more damage? what about if i have a vuln? what if we both have a vuln?
Not exactly a Myth to be busted, but it might be interesting to cover what happens if multiple black mages use Aetherial Manipulation on each other at the same time.
My FC did this once, first we did it in a long line and then in a big circle in the Azime Steppe, and it created some real weird results
From a programmer's perspective: Trying to manually adjust yourself to be perfectly at the center of anything a lost cause.
One saying that they are "pixel-perfect" in the center is misleading, because it suggests that a) the game uses integers (pixel) to measure positions and b) that the smallest possible difference of position is still large enough to be visible to the naked eye. I believe the required level of precision would be better described as "sub-atomic".
I'm a bit skeptical about whether Loom and other movement tech would cause two player to perfectly overlap. Those skill move you toward the target, they probably lack code that would actually "snap" you to the destination, and so the result could be subject to minuscule rounding errors. I'd have considered alternative methods more akin to teleportation, like resurecting the other player, or going together through a door/portal that leads to a different area.
That being said even assuming that the test are flawed and that the claim is "technically" true, it would be humanly impossible to achieve in practice, since even a single game tick of movement would cause you to overshoot the center in inperceptible ways. So for all means and purposes, it's better off considered false.
It's possible the testing for #1 was flawed, it's also possible that the middle of knockback can't be reached by players (as maybe player can move at min 1 unit at a time and is snapped into the grid and center of knockback is actually in the middle of 4 points so player could never reach the actual 0,0 of the knockback) but in reality none of it matters as even if there was a miracle and you could technically stand in the middle and it did prevent the knockback it would be in no way a reliable to do. An actual pixel perfect you'd have to do in seconds would never be a better way than just doing the mechanic.
One piece of advice I hear for eureka is to use the ilvl 290 imperial jade accessories instead of higher synced down accesories to ilvl 300. I'm wondering if that's true or if it was a relic of back when you could meld main stats onto equipment?
You can block knock backs with gap closers, it overrides the knockback when timed correctly, you can even stand close to the edge of an arena and survive a fatal knock back this way.
this might be a bit sillier to test, but concerning Cover and Knockbacks, how does Harrowing Hell in P10 work with it? will the paladin get double-launched off the platform, while the white mage stands center stage totally unharmed? im assuming because its a raidwide "enrage" mechanic, it wont care and cover wont even redirect the damage. the knockback itself sends you into a tumbling animation, different from other knockbacks in that you cant gap-close cancel it either. if i find myself in P10 in my roulettes ill definitely test it myself, but i think the results are predictable based on all the other tests youve shown.
A friend of mine recently claimed the following: "Assuming optimal play, a Dancer in theory actually wants to dance partner Dark Knight for opening burst because they have the highest opening burst. The problem is that after burst ends, Dark Knight's damage falls off rappedly, and even though you can then switch dance partner, standard step's recast means the time your new partner has to go without a buff offsets the gains from partnering Dark Knight."
Thinking over that claim a bit, I tried looking up if other people had talked about it, and I found a reddit thread dating back to "to years ago" discussing it. General consensus was that indeed, Dark Knight had the strongest opening burst in the game, but that it was not worth it bfor afformentioend reasons, but that giving melee cards to Dark Knight was an excelent idea, as it didn't have the same drawbacks.
To me this smelled of "this used to be the case", so I went to FF-logs among the leaderboards for savage raids for various patches, to see if I could find instances a Dark Knight dealing the most damage over the rough span of time that they would be subject to standard step and develment if applied to them. I did find instances of Dark Knights placing second or third, even in some cases coming surprisingly close to Ninja back in 6.2 (I think?), but never any instances of one surpassing the highest damage melee DPS, especially not Samurai.
Thinking it over further I went back to the #6 installment if this series, where you from testing dragonsight on summoner, conclude that no, pets don't benifit from targeted buffs, making me question this whole claim further. Even if it was at some point true that Dark Knight did have the strongest opening burst, surely Living Shadow would be a segnificant contributing factor. If it didn't benifit from things like cards or Dancer's buffs, then it would make the whole thing even more dubious.
This however was something I could test myself, and so with the help of a friend I did. After partying up with them, finding a striking dummy, and taking off all my clothes, I used Living Shadow twice and wrote down the results. Then two more times while having the standard finish and devilment buff. This is where my nudity came into play, as without melds, at base 400 my direct hit rate would be 0, so any direct hits would have to come from devilment, and indeed one such direct hit did occur. Lastly I had them switch to Astro, and apply card buffs for another two rounds. Not the largest sample size, but after adjusting for the higher potency of shadowbringer, critical hits, and the one direct hit, the damage with standard finish was about 4.5% higher, with the card buffs resulting in 6.4% more damage. Both of those cards were melee cards. Those numbers are a bit off what they should be, which is probably just noise thanks to low sample size, but it does indeed strongly suggest that Living Shadow does 1) benifit from Standard Step, 2) benifit from Devilment, 3) benifit from cards, and 4) count as a melee, unlike your chocobo example.
Don't know if Astro cards or the Dancer's partner buffs fall under what you specifically meant by "tergeted buff", but that was the impression I originally came away with, so whether this is a correction or a clarification, it's probably worth putting out there.
My hypothesis for the knockback direction is similar to #3, but without the concept of "next byte over"; there is some function in the engine to calculate the angle between 2 points, that function will always produce some result, so there is no reason to look at a different byte.
What I think might happen (and this is pure speculation) is that there is some conversion between 32-bit floats and 64-bit floats happening somewhere in the angle calculation code. This change in precision could mean that the vector between two identical points isn't (0.0, 0.0) but something like (0.000000006, -0.00000009) or some very tiny vector like that. That vector has a proper direction that would change depending on the inputs.
If my wild hunch is correct, I'd expect the knockback direction to be consistent as long as Right Round caster doesn't move, but that even minute changes to the caster's location would change the knockback angle effectively randomly.