Quazii discusses the positives and negatives of FF14 trial of delaying Savage launch by one week in 6.2
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0:00 Intro
0:45 Higher Engagement Rates With MSQs and Raid Storyline
3:15 Raiders Can Better Enjoy Side Content First
4:37 More Room To Switch Jobs and Test New Jobs
5:20 Are Crafters Selling Crafted Gears Really Impacted?
6:15 Data Mining DRAMA
9:05 Tuning Changes DRAMA About Bosses
10:12 Overall Still A Good Change
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Savage delayed is definitely a good change.
I've been hearing about prog groups fantasiaing for 3 more points of INT or STR. Absolute madness.
Yeah crafting market actually was the best this patch than any, most likely the people who may be mad about it are the exclusive crafters that had "contracts" with world first groups since now instead they have to compete in the Marketboard like the rest of us
For the other stuff, Twitter is as usual being itself so I would trust most dramas from there
From the data mining, I personally didn't stumble on it myself and the only time I saw spoilers was from actual content creators clips of them reaching to that part
I agree on the no excuse for data mining
well, I heard from my friend in JP datacenter there were no drama at all. it just twitter things.
or some streamer that always nitpicking the game will still find the way to nitpicking anyway no matter how good the patch was.
about the job balance drama on world first race, I mean, you've given 7 days to check out and prep min-maxing for whats optimal. why still go with you main job that appeared to be at the lowest of dps food chain in this patch ? iirc, "not get used to the job so it can be worse" aren't a good excuse anymore as a hardcore raiders especially when it come to world first race… like switch from tank to another tank for example.
IIRC this savage tier took close to as long as E8S to clear, which was by far the hardest tier in ShB going by RtWF stats, so I don't buy all the complaints of "This tier was made too easy by giving an extra week." I think overall it was a MUCH healthier experience for the vast majority of players to have the one week delay.
I honestly think it's good if statics are hitting a wall in P8S. Just means everyone gets more gear the following week and comes back to crush it.
It's not even the fight tuning, it's rdps and SMN/RDM dragging ass. It creates the same issue that was present in DRS, unoptimal standard comps were fucked. This should even be a thing, the closest to this ever existing was Paladin vs a12s and needing to VIT pot in order to survive a buster, while still being 20% lower output than other tanks. Or the minor issue with threat at Stormblood launch, which after 1 week made Yoshi-P kneejerk NUKE threat as a game mechanic. Tanks and Healers have been kept within a nice margin of 5%, meanwhile dps is 12%. They need to get rid of the notion of simple job = low dps.
The only thing i'm really quite worried about i've seen come up, was with the dps checks being so extreme, it lends strong benefits to things like split runs to optimise gearing etc. I really don't want to see the "world first" runs by groups with people with 7 alts, or 8 teams. Previously just the time required to do that would be too much for the race, but now it seemed it's the most viable way to do so.
I love everything from 6.2! I am not a hardcore raider! I think the Savage Raids should be 2 weeks from the normal one! I am just patiently waiting for 6.25! I am enjoying the Island Sanctuary slowed down pace! I just wish we could actually rest & get rested exp there like we can at the inns! I'd actually like to have an individual house that I could decorate with trophies for quests! But I'd doubt that will ever happen!
– Patch comes out
– Three days later: "The world first race is finally over"
Off topic: Does anyone experience bad motion sickness for island sanctuary, especially when gathering?
Dataminers are one of the key exceptions to the "stop snitching" rule.
As a crafter main, I made way, way more gil this time around because people had the time to optimize, which means they had to test different sets and different materia meld combinations. The prices for gear have remained consistently high even after Savage release. It's been great.
I like the delay, it gave me time to actually get into the crafting/gathering race and gave a lot of us time to save up gil and get everything we needed without rushing nonstop because you had a week. I hope data miners don't ruin it for everyone. As far as balance goes, it's tricky, I see the frustration because people felt forced to not bring jobs like MCH, RPR, RDM, WAR or PLD, that's the issue with DPS checks that is hard to remedy, some jobs are made to focus more on utility and survivability but DPS checks can make those jobs get pushed out, that said, personally, I think considering that FF14 lets you swap jobs, there's an argument to be made that needing to match up different job comps for different fights is a good thing and let's them make jobs feel different or be needed for certain fights vs others, but the fact it's not really like that anywhere else is an issue. It's tricky, all jobs need to be able to hit a DPS check but if all jobs could but the high DPS jobs can do it much easier, it's likely the same issue or some players will complain it's too easy. I don't envy the team that has to balance this.
I think the biggest thing around the crafting situation is that it's just more of a stable market for everyone involved… which is what some people don't want. By not forcing everything into a maybe 4 hour window, you may not have the opportunity to make hundreds of millions of Gil in a few panicked hours of crafting only to see the market completely die by the end of the day. But, if you stick it out you'll probably make nearly as much just over a couple weeks or even days period. The more casual gear buyers are going to be more incentivized to buy at higher prices because they know the prices won't drop to nothing in 12 hours and the hardcore, well, they're going to buy their gear by the end of the week anyway. It's just that it's not a handful of crafters making hundreds of millions of Gil by fleecing the hardcore day 1 raiders anymore while everyone else just waits until day 2 when they can buy the same gear for 100,000.
The issue with doing essentially a second patch to just include the Savage assets is that, as I understand it, Sony actually puts an extra cost on patching on the Playstation so the more frequent the patching, the more it will cost SE to do it so it becomes a cost/benefit situation. It would be a good idea for sure but I doubt SE would be willing to soak the extra cost just to combat something they probably see as a relatively minor issue.
Crafters are not entitled to charging overpriced crap
Prices of raid gear usually falls steeply after few days. Idk what are crafters complaining about, prices were (nonsensically) high entire week.
And after all, money should not be gate into savage, so by me its good change.
Tighter dps check is also allright. Its still way lower than it used to be in Eden or any old Savage stuff where you couldnt afford single death or damage down(in day1 gear). Savage raaids arent made for casual players. Git gud, at least bit.
It ain't gonna stop me.
I don't encourage datamining, I like to be surprised and datamining ruins it all for me and I assume the community as well.
Ehhh… I am not having a good time raiding this tier. There are even less people participating this time around and I couldn’t find a static to raid with so I’ve just been doing it in PF… not fun 🙁
No no no because that's how wow does it
As a crafter, I'm concerned about the changes. However, an easy solution might be to delay the new master recipe books by 1 week. Crafters, in addition to raiders, wait to complete (or speed run) the MSQs and focus on crafting first. This way everyone could enjoy the MSQs week 1 without stressing about competitive content.
i made the new pudding all week. and the last 2 days before savaged dropped, it was selling so fast i actually couldnt keep up with crafting it considering how long it takes to craft 1 thing to HQ.
I think it's a good idea. I'm not a savage raider, so I have no iron in the fire on this…. but it seems to me that the reason data mining exists is that hyper-competitive people want to use everything they can to give themselves even the smallest advantage in racing to be "the first". If you delay savage by a week, it gives them more time to prep and get all their ducks in a row, and thus the data mining is not as vital.
That also seems to be a Japan vs. "The West" issue. In Japan, it seems to be not just accepted, but considered enjoyable to anticipate a new thing and enjoy the surprise of it in the moment it becomes available, while here in America, we want to know everything weeks or months ahead of time for some reason. Heck, last time I saw a movie in a theater, the previews were so long and detailed, I felt no need to go see the actual movie they were previewing… I felt like I'd watched it already. Not sure who likes that, but… to each their own.
While I didn't mind the traditional 2nd and 3rd tier Savage release before, this makes a lot of sense and is a great "compromise" / adjustment between two weeks at the start and nothing later on. I was able to farm the EX on my alt (not as lucky on main), get my ALC up and ready for new potions, enjoy a lot of the story and genuinely felt far far less stressed out putting my teams in for casual prog week 1. I really hope this is well received and they continue this trend.
I don’t raid that much but I always hated the idea that patch comes out and statics that are going in night 1 want everyone to come with pentamelded crafter gear, new food, new pots etc. and I’m like yeah….I work full time when would you like me to get that done? I had wanted to raid this tier but just couldn’t find a group but I appreciate that this gives more time for people to not just do msq and raid story but also to just get their stuff together and not have to spend millions of gil or depend on others.
Who cares about world first and Twitter is not are real place. All Twitter has become is a cesspool of angry crying people.
Really disliking the weekly tombstone limits – total BS
honestly I want even more time in between. 2 weeks would be amazing in my opinion. I really liked the delay.
I’m definitely supportive of the changes. But if they want dataminers to stop, they need to crack down on them somehow.
As for the balancing, I think balancing with an extra week of gear in mind would be best. Keeps things exiting because if they balanced it to how it was before, it would be just a little easier.
Now, I don’t do savage raids but seeing how close things can get is always exciting. Not to mention raiders always seem to want it to be harder.
Just… Maybe be careful as to not be Alexander level and nearly wipe the raiding scene out.
I started 6.2 with 2mil. I ended with 3 resp feathers, 2 full melded gear sets, crafted gear sets for 8 fc mates I gave them free, 400+ bicolor gems and got the black wings, 2 titania weapons and bunch of mats for new food and for more gear if needed with enough materia to penta meld. With 3 mil in gil still. It was a good week to be a crafter.
The p8s damage discussion is legit, because FFXIV was always seen as the game where every comp can clear as long as it has one of each category and no duplicates. This time it's different because if you have the lowest damage comp plus 610 only weapons people have already mathed out it's almost impossible. Seeing a lot of the high end groups switch jobs is scary.
The problem with wow is their lack of a quality Q&A team. FF have not have any major bugs in the raids since I have joined it. It is very surprising how smooth the raid fights have been. Especially on release day. It is nice they actually can do a global release too. Something that Blizzard has not been able to pull off yet.
I unlocked level 10 Island sanctuary flying and got a 12k Mandragora mount. Pro tip though there's a secret mount that you unlock for purchase at level 10. It's an off-road dirt bike. No I'm not kidding it's 24,000.
Man regardless of the dps check issues…this tier has been amazing. The fight design/mechanics and transitions were incredible. Two thumbs up.
I think it was a great choice to release the Savage 1 week later. 99.99% of the players doesn't even watch any datamined stuff.
But there is still no Kaiten.
Considering how brutal the p8s p1 dps check has been even with 2 weeks worth of tome gear (to the point that some people racing switched jobs) i think savage is fine this tier. This “drama” is way overblown.
People datamine the same shit every tier and it's the same crowd complaining about it every tier.it makes 0 difference. Datamining has been a part of world first since ARR. There are no privet servers to practice on. Worse case senerio is they get debuffs while in the right hands is helpful, does not help complete the mechanics.you can tell this when world first takes over 24 hours.if the data mine was as bad as Twitter whiners made it wf would have been a few hours. And as a average joe raider I really enjoyed the extra week, crafted armor was cheaper, more time to enjoy msq and ex for a week, and got to enjoy everything on the side like you mentioned. Was really nice to chill out and check out the sanctuary and other things. Looking forward to the new savage dungos when they finally come out!
I love the tuning of this raid, it reminds me of how raids used to feel. Its actually feels like a challenge. I don't think the datamining had much of an effect on world first outside of just visual spoilers. I do think waiting to patch the savage raid in until the night before will help alleviate some of the datamining. But over all I hope SE keeps this week delay, its been so nice to not lose my mind crafting gear in 10 hours for my group (and consumables) and actually getting to enjoy content leisurely.
I haven't seen any drama. I am in a hardcore static and we usually do clears week 1 even if we do not participate in the race. The fact that i didn't have to stress over pentamelding/crafting my gear, had the chance to enjoy and chill doing my MSQ and even had a week to get used to the normal mode telegraphs were all really nice things all my static agreed we would appreciate in the future. We are working on P8S phase 2 right now and honestly, it wasn't "easier" even with the extra 450 tomes. I am sure it was marginally easier for some of the race groups but not so much as to not keep the delay or future patches hopefuly.
Considering the fact that it took world first raiders about the same amount of time to beat this tier as it did E8S last expansion AND the first three groups who cleared P8S all did so within 1.5 hours of each other I would say this experiment has been a success all around. The biggest surprise for me is the market situation as crafted gear has held it's price for WAY LONGER than any other tier in recent memory. I think the only people who maybe lost out on some "easy money" are the hardcore crafters who would sell directly to world first groups for insane profits. By comparison, people who simply use the market board to craft gear have been making a killing and continue to do so if they keep at it because both prices and demand are still relatively high. The trickle down effect even hits me as a non-hardcore crafter who forgoes trying to make the high-end gear and instead just does daily roulettes and sells materials on the market board. I've made so much money these past two weeks passively that I could afford to buy a full set of crafted gear without taking a loss. Also, I think this raid tier has a good balance of accessibility and challenge as most groups should be able to get through the first 3 fights this week with the 4th fight being a hurdle that may take some groups several weeks to a month depending on how much time they can put into it. The only real problem that I see is that job balance is a bit off as normally they shoot for every composition being able to clear a fight but we've already seen from the groups that have managed to clear and the lack of certain jobs in those groups that some compositions simply don't bring enough DPS to actually beat the enrage in E8S even once a group gets the mechanics down. With another week of gear and tomes this will likely no longer be a problem but it's really the biggest consistent issue that I've seen with this raid tier thus far.
A good fix- Make crafted gear expertise crafting. Teams wont be full crafted for day 1 savage. DPS checks will be harder to make. Makes normal gear more valuable.
I'm raiding with a static and the savage delay has been really positive for all of us. We could take our time gearing up everyone with the new ex trial weapons and prepare buff food for everyone etc. without being rushed, while also enjoy all the new story content and island sanctuary at the same time, so it was pretty chill.
I would like a savage delay for 1 week from now on 🙂
Ban data miners
fuck this delay. The last tier dps check is tight as glitched E4S, equal or even harder than shiva. All 8 of us farm ex weapon + 900 tome. This just force us to change WAR to gnb and RDM to BLM. So SE really don’t like ppl finish tier week one huh?
My heart bleeds for the price-gougers crafting the new gear.
Data mining – theres is NO NEED to have the Savage data minable until it's unlocked .. it's SE's fault this data was minable a week ahead of when it's unlocked. SE need to learn about encryption!
Lastly, game balancing should IGNORE the lolworldfirst race, given it's less than 1% of players do the content at all, and only a handful of players are even into 'world first' e-peening.
Personaly i think the raids a re realy well tuned, for what i've seen on the WFR. The big problem (and i don't realy see any streamer talking about it) is the job balance. That are some team comps that will have lots of problems in clearing p8s, even two or three weeks from now,, and might not even be able to clear it.
There is one true Drama. This raid made a huge impactfull on job efficiency and balance, specialy on tanks. LITERALY NOBODY is going with WAR or PLD
id say yes because it left us time to do our stuff and prepare for savage
This is a fantastic change. Being able to relax the first week and enjoy the new content at a leisurely pace and not feel like you are being left behind, especially for PF enjoyers, is by far the greatest argument to support it; Endgame content doesn't have to just be catered towards the most hardcore individuals, and I'm sure plenty of them appreciate this as well. It was really nice to be able to go in on day 1 to try P5S with my FC feeling fresh after having enjoyed MSQ, normal raids, progging the new EX, and of course Island Sanctuary. As for dataminers, I will always, ALWAYS shame them for what they do, whether they are purposefully trying to ruin everyone's fun or are doing some insane mental gymnastics to justify it. FFXIV and CBU3 doesn't deserve the headache.