Endwalker laid a great foundation for the Summoner Job going foward… or did it?
Like and subscribe for more FFXIV Content!
► Follow me on TikTok for FFXIV for highlights and memes!
https://www.tiktok.com/@samsongrey26
#FF14 #FinalFantasy #Finalfantasy14 #Finalfantasyxiv #finalfantasyonline #finalfantasyxivonline #finalfantasy14online #ARR #heavensward #stormblood #shadowbringers #stormblood #endwalker #ffxivcommunity #ffxivonline #summoner #ffxivsummoner #ff14summoner #dawntrail
source
Love to hear everyone else's hopes and fears as to what DawnTrail will add to the Summoner Job. Please comment with your thoughts!
I love and hate FFXIV SMN while it will be my main (until the rumored Pictomancer becomes a reality… gotta live out my Relm fantasy). Love it cause it was the run of the mill pet class, but did have a dislike for it cause it was glaringly different from (outside of ffxi) all other SMNs in the entire series. Still have a bit of sourness in its taste cause we still only have very few summons to really be called "Summoners". IMHO we should have access to a bit more in DawnTrail:
Leviathan (Water – Single short cast but long lasting low damage DoT, lasting about about 90sec; Favor would wash away a single harmful debuff/DoT)
(AoE – Single long cast that hits multiple targets with in 10y of your primary target placing a 30sec DoT on all enemies)
Ramuh (Thunder – 3 Charges that double the DMG if used on a target with Levi DoT, increasing in potency each charge used; Favor would be teleport away from mob by 15y)
(AoE – Place an Orb of thunder at the targeted location that will detonate every 2 secs in a thunderous explosion hitting all foes, damage potency increases by 750 every 2secs for 8secs)
Shiva (Ice – Single Hard hitting nuke with a long Cast time – extra dmg if used at 50% or lower health; Favor being amplify any buffs with more than 5 seconds remaining for an additional 15sec) (AoE – Diamond Dust – Explode jagged ice out in all directions from your character for 15y hitting all foes within range)
Fenrir (Magical Melee DPS with 4 charges not on GCD for ST and AoE – Favor Temporary increase spell skill recharge speed by 15% and movement speed by 20% for 10seconds)
Lunar and Onyx Carbuncles for Carby Pet Glamours; and make Emerald Carbuncle actually Emerald…
This would allow for a bit more variety while still being a simple rotation and feel more like an actual FF SMN, well at least in my opinion.
I love current SMN. I also liked old SMN. But I love having an easy job in the game. A job players can use easily in any new or blind content. SMN is my main job. If I want something harder I have other jobs. Did I mention I like that SMN is easy :).
My hope is that they at least make it so bahamut gives you ifrit/garuda/titan gems as it you currently have, then phoenix gives us another set of summons, maybe Leviathan, Ramuh and Shiva?
They could have similar functionality where they use a catastrophe skill and a gemshine skill. Maybe they have less mobility with two having hardcasts and one having instant casts as a flip of the current three?
Also, I think it's very likely that they will fudge with Phoenix's potencies to match Bahamut's anyway, since they already bumped up Phoenix's potencies in patch 6.05 (went from 430 potency, same as astral impulse, to 520) and again in 6.08 (bumped further to 540, while astral impulse was only bumped to 440). I think it's definitely in the realm of possibility that we'll get a third demi-summon that has similar potencies. I'm personally holding hope for proto Carbuncle lol
Give us Fenrir (like we had in FFXI). I don't care how the devs work it in, but I want my big blue puppy!
I mean, the obvious choice to add new summons is to put a trait on Phoenix that makes the next Ifrit, Titan, Garuda summons be something else (like Ramuh, Shiva, Leviathan or some of the expansion's summons). They can have different mechanics to the normal three as it wouldn't be too overwhelming; it's still just once every two minutes.
Give us the egi version at 92, then the upgrades to the skills from 94-98 then the final big ones at 100, same as happens now from 80-90.
1:47 I personally disagree with this assumption; Summoner has had substantial basically every expansion launch to the point where it's basically a meme, and I'd expect one in 7.0 unless they finally decided they're satisfied
I loved SMN in 5.0 not for its difficult rotation but its esthetic for commanding the summons but in 6.0 they gutted what i loved from it. Its still my main only cause nothing else exists with its esthetic but i want my old summons back also it really irritates me that the carbuncle is useless and is now a water boy for my shield and doesn't attack. I would like the class to be a little more difficult though because they did a full 180 in the other direction by taking the most difficult rotation into the most easiest, somewhere in the middle for difficulty would of been more appropriate. Note on what you've talked about at the end with new summons, ive thought of it around 6.1 which is similar to the replacing of gurda titan and iferit but instead of replacing you do buhamat then have regular garuda etc. But then summon Phoenix and they get switched out with different ones like for example shiva, leviathan, and ramuh then summon buhamat then back to narmol so it doesnt extend the rotation. (Edit: I now read some comments and realized that someone had the same idea as me I guess Summoners think alike)
ogcd Summons sound really good. It def would add more complexity, especially if you can't summon when together with the gcd summons. I like this idea.
As a SMN main, I was glad SMN is actually focused on summoning now. With it very simplified now, it creates room for growth.
The original rotation was carpal tunnel inducing with Ruin III spamming in between Bahamut and Firebird cycles.
Been thinking about this off an on all day while getting daily house and work stuff done…
Honestly Fenrir would be a good ogcd summon especially if they're inspired from FFXI's version to a unique point.
Lv.92 Job Quest: Summon Egi-Fenrir
Lv.92: Single Target = Lunar Fang (3 charges – 0.92 cast time); Deals unaspected damage with a potency of 1000
Lv.92: AoE = Growling Eclipse (3.54 cast time); Deals unaspected damage to target and all nearby foes with a potency of 880 to the first target and 60% less for all remaining enemies.
Lv.94: Trait = Blood Pact; Increase potency of all Summons by 50 and Increases Potency of Fenrir abilities by 100.
Lv.96: Job Quest: Summon Fenrir
Lv.96: Fenrir's Favor = Moonlit Howl; Increases the primary stat of the player and any additional party members by 5% every 6secs for 30secs; (Instant Cast / 45sec CD)
Lv.98: Trait = Blood Pact II; Increase potency of all Summons by an additional 50 and Increases Potency of Fenrir abilities by 100
Lv.100: Job Quest: ???
Lv.100: Trait = Eclipsed Fangs; Increases the charges of Lunar Fang by 2 (total of 5) and removes cast time making Lunar Fang now Instant Cast.
Lv.100: Action = Call Fenrir! = Summon Fenrir to your side. (Radiant Aegis changes to Heavenward Howl; Carbuncle would still be available, can only have one or the other out at a time.)
Lv.100: Heavenward Howl = Summoner Attacks now steal a portion of both HP and MP from any enemy hit by the summoner for 20seconds.
Well.. that is my 2gil on the idea at least lol… *deep inhale from the hopium and copium tanks*
maybe for me with SMN is i hope they have 2 sets of summons when they are in Bahamut mode or Phoenix mode. Maybe add Ramuh, Shiva and Leviathan. Probably potency wise shouldnt be that much of a huge difference with the OG ones, but visually it would make it less boring and they have their own unique summon abilities also that probably makes its gameplay more fun.
i loved old smn, when it got reword i felt lost, without a home in the game.
two (three) things i dont like about the new summoner:
the attack animation is janky, it looks bad. pay attention to it, once you see it, yo cant unsee it.
why the hell a gap closer and a melee attack on a ranged class? this isnt even red mage. this alone made me not want to play the class
the third reason: old summoner was beautiful, it had its problems but they were totally fixable. this new summoner is a totally new class but with same name. that old class that i loved soo much doesnt exist anymore, and nothing in the game came close to fill the void left by old summoner departure.
Instead of having new minor summons replace the current ones on odd minute windows, I think it would be cool to have all 6 (assuming 3 new) summons available after each demi summon, and you'd be forced to choose the 3 best ones for the situation or maybe cut some short to cycle through 4 or 5 of them.
Imagine if we had a second titan that did less damage for free movement (not that the job is lacking that) or a second, even more inconvenient ifrit, where you'd have to burn swiftcast just to even summon it on time and then you only had hardcasts but it did the most damage out of the minor summons.
Another upside to this is that they wouldnt strictly have to develop 3 new summons, even just adding 1 or 2 would allow you to make a meaningful decision every minute, while letting people who dont want to optimize to just default to whatever they're used to.
We are due a new Demi-primal. I would like either Alexander or Odin at level 100. And of course Ramuh, Leviathan and Shiva after summon Phoenix.
The rework was cool but honestly one of my favorite parts about old/other FFs is how many different summons you could have. Would be nice if they added other primals like Leviathan, Ramuh, and Shiva to represent the other major elemental aspects even if they were just shown in a few skills. Or even better, if they could make the rotations use two at a time like a tag team. And they can incorporate FF14's elemental wheel somehow. Personally I'd love to see them re-style it to Titan/Ifrit -> Ramuh/Garuda -> Leviathan/Shiva -> Bahamut/Phoenix.
Minor thing I noticed: you mentioned bahamut being the more potent big summon, but that was changed after 6.0. FoF potency was buffed to be higher than astral impulse (540 vs 440) such that the 6 total FoF's add up to more than a DF of damage over astral impulse. I haven't done any math on buff windows or anything, but at least potency wise, pheonix is more powerful. so that isnt really a good reason as to why they won't add a third big summon, as they already have the more powerful of the two outside of the 2min
Maybe they add an attack that utilizes all of your summons for a powerful attack like Ultima
I think it'd be nice to add another version of gemshine and ruin that is a hard-cast. Or at least altering something to make the caster feel more like a caster, and less like a ranged dps.
Not to suggest too big of an overhaul, but I think Dreadwyrm Trance should give you a 1-minute buff that increases your spell damage by a certain percentage, while also adding more time onto gemshine's cast time. Garuda would make you essentially have to stand still as you cast four quick bursts. Ifrit is an even longer cast that you have to clip the GCD. Titan gets normal cast times that you can move in-between. That way Bahamut would be your low mobility phase, while Phoenix can be the high mobility phase, with party-heals, and lower damage.
As another way to add depth while also not making the class too hard, for the big level 100 trait or ability, I'd add a new button to un-equip your gem for lack of a better term, at the cost of one Energy Drain stack.
Essentially, you summon Ifrit, then you need to move immediately. use up the Energy Drain, then summon something else. or don't do that if you don't need to, and you can spend it on damage, or potentially counteracting the negative of either Bahamut, or Phoenix for a few seconds. ie. normalizing bahamut phase's cast times, or increasing the damage of phoenix phase.
That would also give an actual reason to have Energy Drain at all. As it stands, it just feels so tacked on.
As it stands, Summoner is my least favorite class in the game, so maybe I'm coming at this from the wrong place, but the way it is right now feels way too mindless for me to enjoy it.
As you say, I don't want the job to be too overly complicated. It should still be the easy caster, but I think these changes would give a decent amount of depth when possible while still being fun and easy to play. We're not going to the level of black mage where you have to keep track of a million little meters and timers while trying to get everything completely perfect, or else suffer a huge DPS loss.
I need Leviathan or at least a water summon. While the obvious choice would probably be to make Phoenix activate 3 different summons, I kind of want 3 summons that interweave with the current 3 so the rotation feels less like a healer DPSing. Like 3 oGCD summons you can weave in with the other 3 or even just change the current 3 to Levi, Shiva and Ramuh(or 3 others but one must be water, WTF is the lack of water attacks still?) and have all 3 have very different functions, like one hard caster, one mobile, one maybe DoT or even melee and have them have more abilities. It's just very barebones so I think just adding 3 more one button summons would be the worst case scenario for me even though that seems like the obvious easy thing they could do.
Add 3 new summons, have them share their CD/Activation with one of the OGs. For example, you can summon;
Ifrit OR Leviathan
Garuda OR Ramuh
Titan OR Shiva
Which will of course give you their elemental spells. What would make them different? Have Leviathan be instant cast and Ramuh & Shiva be hard cast. So that way, Summoners now have the choice between standing still and summoning the hard cast summons of Ifrit, Ramuh and Shiva, or if they need to be extra mobile they can summon Leviathan, Garuda and Titan.
This would let skilled Summoners to stand still and cast the higher potency spells granted to them by the hard cast Summons by knowing in advance where the safe spots will be, while still allowing those less skilled with a fight to contribute with their lower potency but instant cast spells granted to them by the instant cast Summons.
You could take it a step further, and tie which Prime summon you get to whether you used all hard cast, all instant cast or a mix of the two. If you want the big damage of Bahamut, you need to do 3 Hard Cast Summons, if you want the support of Phoenix then you'll do 3 Instant Cast Summons and if you do a combination of the two you get… I dunno, Chocobo?
Here is a unique idea to help Summoner rotation stand out more
You know how Ninja mudra combination can alter the ninjutsu command? Do the same for Summoner
The order you Summon the 3 primal would alter the next big summon
For example:
Titan>Garuda>Ifrit OR Garuda>Titan>Ifrit would make aethercharge turn to Summon Phoenix
Just like Ninja mudra, the last main primal summoned determines what big Summon you'll call
Other big summons could be: Leviathan and Ramuh
Leviathan would apply the elusive dropsy debuff (water DOT) and Ramuh would apply some kind of buff to the party, either an attack buff or shielding? Anything to differentiate the 3 big summons
With 3 potential big summons, Summoners would have a lot of planning to do with keeping in mind the order of the tri-primals summoned to determine which of the 3 big summons is required at the moment.
This would break the monotonous cycle of Summoner rotation and make it more fun and engaging
Leave the Bahamut, Titan, Garuda, Ifrit series the same.
Change Phoenix though. Phoenix, Ramuh, Levithan, Shiva
Then add Alexander or something else for a big hit as reward. 100% CritDHit for that “feel good” big hit satisfaction.
All that would need to happen in order to fit in the 2 min window that is currently in place is a little faster animations on main 3 summons to save 3 seconds total.
Boom done! All Summoners would be happy!
Pin it, send it!
What if for the lesser summons (Garuda, Ifrit, Titan) they introduced dual summons. Now sure how they would make it flow, but add some way where you can summon 2 at once and they do a powerful attack and add an extra affect by combining the elements.
Wind/Fire = Smoke
Fire/Earth = Magma
Earth/Wind = Sandstorm
Just brainstorming. You can tell me if it's a terrible idea. Lol.
1) add odin ogcd. it cast zantetsuken with 1% chance to insta kill boss. 10 minute cooldown.
2) add leviathan to gemshine phase.
3) there is not enough time to use it all 4 gemshine summons. you have to choose.
4) leviathan casts veil of the whorl to the whole party.
5) veil of the whorl gives the party shields + counter damage.
there i made smn less brain ded.
odin is a joke of course, but lets just give it 500 potency. 10% chance to get 1000 potency.
rng is good.
i miss the old smn but can accept that it had to change and the new one is still fun, what i would love is a special third big summon, kinda like collecting a "coin" after every Bahamut and Phoenix phase and after you get two coins you can summon Sephiroth, Zurvan or Sophia, with a 100% crit skill and 15 sec roration
Regarding the idea for a third big summon…dare I suggest Shinryuu? It wouldn't be as over the top as going for Zodiark or Hydaelyn. He did have pretty much suped up elemental Powers so he sure would be odd to be put on equal level as Ifrit and Co.
I doubt they'd go a sorta funny route and maybe add a random chance to summon Odin instead of the regular ones, dealing either increased damage to a Boss or immediately cutting down all regular Enemies
I think SMN just needs more OGCDs
Same with RDM but they could also use a ver-esuna