My favorite parts of the lore are, without question, the Ancients and the Twelve. Between Pandaemonium & Euphrosyne, I’ve been losing my mind. I can’t wait to see where they take this– that’s not to even mention MSQ!! GOLBEZ AND ZERO?!?! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!
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My theory is that they're not ancients that ascended but sundered that have managed to rejoin a certain number of times. Maybe the full 13.
My 2 cents, the 12 are dynamis based beings "primals" rather than the aetheric type we are use to. They've come into being from thousands of years of people's hopes and prayers and have come to embody concepts through peoples wishes that are part of people subconscious life and emotions.
One thing i don't agree with Pyro is tempering. According to Loporrits, tempering was added later by Ascians when they were teaching summoning to other races/tribes.
I think Loporrits said that original summoning might tug on your soul with someone as powerfull as Zodiark, but I can imagine that would be easy to ignore for ancients.
And acients praying to Zodiark was imho out of despair, they were fearfull of what happened.
So twelve could easily be created after zodiark creation, but imho has to be before sundering – because sundering has sundered everyone. We have no clue why Emet and Lahabrea escaped that (they were in pandemonium at that time?) and why Elidibus was not sundered if he was heart of Zodiark? And twelve were in their realm, which was not affected by sundering? Or maybe in some kind of rift, from which later they have emerged as it is written in myths?
Hopefully we get more info.
I've been playing this game longer than Pyro, he knows more lore than me….I gotta study up or get left behind! Lol
cant wait to see lore thoughts post doing raid tier 👀
Awesome to see some lore speculation/dives on your YouTube Pyro!
They all seem rather bored & like they've been dying to fight powerful champions for a long, long time.
Sounds a lot like Venat to me…
I would be disappointed but not surprised to find out that Hydaelyn was actually the weakest fragment & that the twelve are stronger independent entities born of her.
Venat had 12 followers that helped her summon Hydaelyn. That number could be more than a coincidence if the Twelve are related to the Ancients. In the raid cutscene, the Twelve do seem to know who Hydaelyn is and that they would need to step up to take her place as protector of the world. Maybe they are either her creations, or the remaining fragments of the souls of those 12 Ancients who offered themselves up in Hydaelyn's creation. It's totally like Venat to scheme a way to keep her most loyal allies alive somehow despite the creation ritual requiring the sacrifice of their energy/souls. It would also explain Emet's (and the Ascians') disdain for the Twelve and allow for a mechanism for the world to have guidance into the future (and not be a rudderless ship adrift in the proverbial sea). Who better to entrust the future of the world and its reflections than her most trusted allies, who can work together and balance each other out so that no single person wields excessive control.
I’m so glad Nymeia has a great design. When we saw nald’thal and rhalgr I wasn’t sure how they’d pull off a good design for her and I’m so happy with it
i don't know i felt like we've been through this again and again for many years, imagine ppl trying to guess the plot for patch contents in shadowbringers or stormblood, which time and time again shows our bounds of knowledge cannot take to the level where the writer has pleasantly surprised us. Although there is a constant that which we can lock onto, that is the direction the story is shifting towards… how and why the identity of the twelve should matter in the context of this new MSQ arc for example (granted alliance raid could just be isolated like Nier alliance raid in ShB), eden's raid was about restoration, and this current raid is about connection (or ascension as some had claimed). seeing pandemonium in current time is a connection to the past that feels critically important as 6.4 might demonstrate.
I just hope they don't write Elidibus' line "this i promised to… someone?" or "i thought i could be 'him'" wind up to be us who gave elidibus the conviction that ironically set against us in a cycle of fate… that would be pretty tragic
I'm here for Nophica's huge tracts of land
The line about escaping a purgatory of death and rebirth reminds me a LOT of Spira's themes in X. There's no other evidence pointing to a direct reference, but I wonder whether they'll bring in someone with Seymour's particular brand of madness.
I think one major point also binding the Twelve more towards Venat/Hydaelyn than anything else is that they did not show themselves or reveal the path to their summit until after Hydaelyn's demise. With Hydaelyn gone and the world bereft of her guidance, the Twelve could be stepping in to see whether they need to take action to fill the void left by Hydaelyn, or whether they can trust the realm to mortals.
To see whether Etheirys still requires the Ancients to serve as Stewards of the Star.
the golden nugget info from the vid about what Emet said. very true, excited time to speculate.
What if the 12 are the Source's Original Primals. We know that Azem often went out to deal with the ancients 'beast tribes' and that the summoning of primals is nothing new even by ancient standards. Maybe they are the pre sundering primals hence their powers being somewhat elevated and perhaps explaining why Venat / Hydaelen was protective of them (she did ask Midgarsomer to basically sit on their front step to guard it).
If you remember the two escaped the 13th to the first after all. Golbez may acutally know of the first!! The young white robed ascian not Elidbus. Also other friend we know of : )
It's rare to actually be able to theorycraft with someone in this gmae.
I think the twelve might work more or less like egregores
What have you done to Australia?! >:(
there are 5, so we let space in the last 24-people raid tier for a final boss that is an entity we don't know yet… probably a god of gods?, or the fusion between all of the entitys becoming 1.
Hot take, i think they're related to dynamis from all the color queues, the color of the sky in the raid zone, the colors of the 12 themselves related to the colors of the Elpis flower during MSQ, the fact that they interact less and less with the world as more rejoinings happened.
Maybe they are auspices of dynamis, and the animals are their original forms. Perhaps they allied with Hydaelyn because they literally symbolize mankind's hopes and dreams, which would only be able to take form when the world had 1/14th the amount of aether, allowing the dynamis to be influenced strongly enough.