Sorry about my voice in this video – I’m sick!
Original Post: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/1e7zjxr/701_average_number_of_cast_per_minute_by_job/
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I think Viper is popular because it's always busy. Having stuff to do outside buff windows is fun. Picto has lots of thinking to do outside buff windows. If you don't have a bonkers buff window, you need something to do all fight long. Be it either high BPM or planning your movement.
I mean both decisions and high cpm make a fun job, what I cant play is jobs with static rotations. I want to create my rotation for each fight and each go around I know where we are in a fight because of where I am in my rotation. I do enjoy the planning of casters and catering my movement to a fight, but I would call myself a melee main because I like the busy nature of the job and trying to squeeze as much uptime as I can, figuring out what I can get away through trial and error. I loved fights like p8s that made my desire to perfect my rotation and uptime a necessity vs p12s where it was only important to me since the dps check was so lenient.
After figuring out my button layouts for Extreme/Savage raids for DRG, not only do I miss DRG having fewer buttons but I actually miss the buttons that were meant to be pressed strictly on cooldown as well. The sort of long-term cadence of it all is what I liked. Now I just slam my face on the keyboard every 120s lol.
Why DRG's 200-damage instant tied to High Jump lost its Nastrond-enabling effect is beyond me haha. Now all the ability does is the measly 200 damage! This weenie instant is the lion's share of what is inflating DRG's button presses as well which is the funniest part lol.
I do overall prefer busy jobs. I mained EW AST (on controller) and overall liked the speedy jobs the most, like GNB, MCH, MNK. But whats the most important to me is how a job feels. I used to love BLM but after the changes it feels bad to play, the fire phase is too long, ice phase is too short, without sharpcast you dont really need to think about how you will weave it to refresh thunder on the second part of fire, its insanely strict, and on top of all of that they took away ice paradox which just felt good
same with with MNK, we returned to the 223 flow of EW but it still feels bad, EW MNk was all about the flow, specially during your bursts where you had to make sure you mazimized the uses of oppo gcds while not dropping your dot and buff, but now the 2 minute is "oops, all oppo oppo!" and for me it just makes the flow halt in a jarring way that makes me go "where was I?" at the end, looking down at my hotbars to even know what comes next while I regain my footing.
currently Im maining PCT and ADORING it, it just feels great, how outside of your burst you can do anything however you want, like paint for like the whole valigarmanda transition because you got places to be when thats done, or how in P4S I was saving one motif unpainted right before the 2 minute for movement during pinax, even the burst you can do it in so many ways to deal with movement requierements and can do a bit of hyperfantasia just to go dance around the stage with 3 hammers and then come back to finish your burst, its a marvelous job that really nails the aesthetic…. and the hammer combo animation is just amazing
Im also hugely enjoying VPR. in EW I played all the melees but RPR which I didnt enjoy, but with the DT changes I just dont enjoy DRG and SAM as much and MNK feels awful. I was expecting I would dislike VPR as it looked like a "click the shiny" job and I enjoy the more complicated jobs, but VPR plesantly surprised me. is not only the speed but the moment to moment desicion making, VPR is very much a job about juggling, having the debuff, the positonal buffs, the dreadwinder combo, and two gauges to manage makes it so much more engaging. I found myself plesantly surprised by the fact that keeping up my positional buff was actually something I needed to keep in mind.
at the end, what makes a fun job in my opinion is the moment to moment descicion making, the ability to adapt to different situations, and the oportunity to improve oneself… and funny paint noises.
I havent really dived into the new jobs yet… Picto still feels a bit cluncky but with more practice and experiance, I think I will like this job. Viper… I can make no head nor tail with it. Maybe its too fast for me, I'm more of caster/healer/tank person, but since I was able to figure out all other melees and how they work… yeah… Need more practice. Which I dont have time for at the moment ^^°
As for what makes a job fun… For me its simply, can I get the mobs down, does it look good, is it punishing if I fail and is the burst satisfying. I just leveled Warrior and though the job is immortal in dungeons I never really warmed up to it. That was until I experienced its burst at 100 for myself, and whooo boy ^.^ Its so, so, so much fun ^.^
I dont enjoy dt drk nearly as much. it does not feel as rewarding to play when executing your rotation well.
You cannot just look at how many casts per minute a job has as it isn't indicative of the job itself, what you do need to consider is what the buttons do when you press them and, what I think is also very important, how does your kit interact with an encounter. Taking Pictomancer as an example. When I unlocked it and was hitting a striking dummy, painting the motifs (at least for me) felt off. It took away from the flow. However, when you put yourself in an encounter you can then start thinking about when is the best time I can stand still and cast these. An example being the first boss of strayborourgh. With such hectic sections it can be difficult to stop and cast for 3 seconds, so you really have to think where you place them.
A really good example of kits and encounters not mixing is when people say they want the PvP kits in PvE. The PvP kits are designed for short, bursty encounters and generally have a lot of status effects to help swing the fight in your favour, however, not everything is going to translate into PvE, you aren't going to be Miracle of Natureing bosses anytime soon as an example, so you are left with, what is quite a boring kit to play.
However, one of the most important things to consider is that everyone is different. What works for one person isn't necessarily going to work for someone else. This is why having a wide spectrum of different playstyles is important, so that as many people as possible have a job they can enjoy playing.
My mains in EW were Ninja and Monk. I find VPR to be the perfect blend of both, with fun little internal game with Dreadwinder combos but the NIN burst of "Press everything NOW" also VPR being flexible with its tools, because your burst is literally just the 2 Reawakens back to back means you can hold / use Dreadwinder as you want. Same with the ranged attack (Uncoiled Fury I think?) Do you know you will have to go out of the melee range? 3 Uncoiled Fury's stocked up and we are a MCH for up to 8 seconds babyyy! I also love how everything clicks when you go into the burst phase and think, why not 3 Reawakens and then you realize that the 40 seconds buff and debuff duration was picked very much deliberately to prevent that.
I generally find jobs fun if each button has a purpose and reason to be used, and it's not just "part of a combo that could've been on a single button" – which also moves into jobs designed around systems/job mechanics they have, rather than being designed around rotation. Ideally, I like it when jobs rotation is damage-optimal way of pressing buttons heavily conditioned on fight allowing you to do it, and forcing you to figure out how to combine things together in suboptimal conditions (read: whenever you're not fighting training dummy).
Healers check all the boxes – to a point some buttons might never be used for entire fight if there's simply no need to use them; out of new jobs picto also fits this description – you have some clear goals presented by your kit (build up meter for subtractive, paint motifs so they're ready when cooldowns are up, don't overcap on resources) and full freedom to figure out how you get there, depending on fight. On the opposite spectrum – jobs like DRG, GNB or MCH – where you heavily move towards needing to press specific buttons in specific order I find unfun; if I'm going to play some QTE memory game, I can just play piano instead.
DRK and SMN were bad enough in EW that i didn't think they could get any worse, and yet both somehow did
For me its how my character look, hence why i dont like picto. Looks goofy for me regardless how strong it is. Its just not for me
I got it to 100, not gonna touch it. Viper is fast, but it gets boring real fast too.
For me i like the burst window on ninja but that wait window is way to slow and it kinda kills the fun for me. Plus i hate the potion pop in a rotation. Like it makes no sense
what really makes a job for me is an aspect of… i guess job fantasy is the best descriptor. full disclosure i’m a tank/healer main, so take any comments on dps with a grain of salt.
specifically, when a job makes me feel like im filling the role, i find the job more easy to adjust to and execute. with a less intricate burst phase, a lot of enjoyment comes from how im able to adapt to boss mechanics and how well my kit caters to that. paladin, for instance, while i enjoy the rotation, most of my enjoyment comes from my variety of party mitigation tools. between passage of arms, divine veil, intervention and cover, high-damage fights become dances of party mitigation. while playing gunbreaker feels more like juggling a backup medic with aurora and heart of corundum in-between high-damage bursts. warrior and dark knight, meanwhile, feel less impactful to the team in exchange for feeling more personally powerful (high healing for warrior, pleasing tbn usage for dark knight) though dark knight slips to the bottom slot as they feel like the least impactful tank among the four.
healers (ast aside as i’ve not gotten the to a high level since their changes and don’t feel good commenting on it), meanwhile, all very much feel like they serve their role perfectly, partially to fight design and partially due to good foundations. scholar in particular i’ve come to love, as playing it i really do feel the tactical elements of the job come into focus. between dissipation, seraph, their enshroud, and more frequent availability of recitation, i feel like i can sort of go down a list of pre-planned healing contingencies when the party is in danger.
I think what makes a job fun is much more subjective rather than objective. I read the comments here and everyone has very different reasons they like their job and every job has a particular fan base! from my perspective its more the idea of feeling powerful and badass So I like WAR because of the spamming, healing, and critting MCH for the vast amount of tools i can use and prepping wildfire for a big blast, WHM for Sprouting wings and healing everyone with massive heals and fueling the blood lily and lastly NIN for its insane mobility and adaptability being able to deal consistent damage from anywhere if you rotate and use mudras when forced out of melee range.
As a former die hard Dark Knight main since its debut, I am tired of what they keep doing to it. I finally decided this expansion to drop it entirely. I played Warrior for the latter half of 6.X but still attempted to play Dark Knight and glean some enjoyment from it, however I can no longer do so. Its level 100 now, but unless it receives a surprise rework that restores even a modicum of its former identity during the 7.X series, its shelved until 8.0—if not permanently. Currently, the tank I am playing most in Gunbreaker, the melee I am enjoying most is Viper and the ranged I am utterly obsessed with is Dancer. I'm sure I don't have to explain to anyone as to why…
As all three of which half lots of weaving and a more or less rigid structure to their burst windows that I used to love with Dark Knight in the Stormblood era; Blood Weapon windows not lining up with burst and letting you be "greed the tank" was such a fucking thrill. It sucks to see them continually ruin my favorite job. First with the change in Stormblood, then the removal of the speed buff in Shadowbringers, saying that all tanks would get "a new type of multi effect cooldown" in Endwalker and outright excluding Dark Knight and now neutering the burst window to a hilarious degree while STILL refusing to address its self sustation issues, all because a small subset of players were allergic to pressing Blood Weapon and Delirium in their burst.
They've consistently ruined everything I loved about the job and the times they have done good things that were UNIVERSALLY PRAISED; 4.4's changes are hailed as some of the BEST changes Dark Knight ever had, they often revert said changes as soon as possible to "try something new."
For me, and I don't know if many people will understand this reference, Dark Knight is the Paper Mario of the tanks. A perfect, flawless, much beloved formula/gameplay system that is constantly reinvented over and over again until all semblance of its former identity has been violently carved away all in the pursuit of simply making it "different" every time.
I'm tired of it.
I want my favorite job back.
To me what makes a job fun is the intent of the buttons you press. A problem I have with a lot of jobs is that their OGCD's boil down to "more damage 1" and "more damage 2" etc. I prefer it if the buttons tangibly allow me to do something else than bigger numbers. Stuff like Triplecast, Perfect Balance and Requiescat. The less boring stat buffs a job has, the more enjoyable it is to me.
Im not one who particularly cares abous DPS or cast times or anything like that, I care about how fun it is to play in general. And for me, picto has become my favourite job. That slapstick style gives me so much joy ❤
I swapped over to Viper after leveling an alt and having it play each expansion’s poster job throughout msq. And, I gotta say, best choice I’ve made this expansion! Best part is when the rotation starts to/naturally lines up with the BPM of battle themes
It soothes my ADHD brain so I've always leaned towards the high APM jobs. Always chose AST as healer or DRK as my tank back in Shb and NIN or MNK as my DPS up till now.