I think this FFXIV drama is blown way out of proportion, but it’s a good opportunity to talk about this issue.
It is okay to do small pulls as a tank if you are new or still learning the class.
It’s fine to ask your tank to slow down if you are struggling as a newbie healer.
Be nice to new players. Be nice in general.
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Paladin and DRK were my first classes, and I can't count how many times I've been backseated over how I was pulling. My first time doing Paglath'an, the DRG told me I didn't know how to tank just because I wasn't pulling the entire room, and then they proceeded to run ahead of the party and get killed. One time, I even got insulted just for having a sprout badge (something like "i know you're a noob because of your precious little sprout icon but that doesn't give you an excuse to suck") and I spent the rest of the night crying. It actually encouraged me to play DPS full time because I couldn't handle the toxicity.
I know it sucks when you wanna get your tomestones and you get paired up with a new tank who takes it slow, but… just keep it to yourself, ok? It's just a video game.
I just say, if you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen.
New players is new players but if you are a old veteran player and you qued up with a slow pulling newbie tank for the 400th time, I can understand the frustration and the annoyance. It's easy to have patience in the start but all it take is to have one rough day at work or something bad has happened to you during that day and you just wanna relax. Then you see you tank popping reprisal before pulling the adds… then you know it's going to be a fun time.
honestly i admit i get frustrated with sprouts but i just don't tell them, unless we wipe 2 or 3 times i start to explain the mechanics.
I'm a newbie tank and I get nervous and stressful everytime I enter a dungeon with players even though I have practiced with NPCs :')
There is sadly a difference between "not playing perfectly" and blatantly doing whatever you want and ignoring everyone who's trying to help you get better.
In the last 2 weeks I had several tanks who either refused to turn on tank stance or switched it off and on as part of their "rotation". They also refused to use defensive cds and expected the healers to "earn their loot, because they aren't supposed to do damage" and used tank LB1 whenever ready during 8-man trials.
I have no problem at all with tanks who are insecure and want to pull small. Everyone starts learning somewhere and that's okay. I have a problem with players who enter the game with a god complex and act as if they're in single player without any regards for the people around them. It wouldn't even surprise me if a lot of those problem tanks are trolls on free trial accounts, since none of them appear in content above level 60.
When i started to tank paladin did most players always said " aggro everything to next boss" and so i did. Got the basics from WoW but i learnt pretty quick on what to do and not.
The most important thing to remember about this game, is that "We were ALL new once." Give the new players the benefit of slow pulls so they CAN learn their way around. If the tank pulls too slowly, you are welcome to leave, and we can replace you with other players who are not in so much of a hurry. The other thing to remember, especially if you wipe while they learn is, "Death is a part of MMOs." And again, if you get pissy because of wipes, then you can leave, and we will replace you with someone else who does not mind dying. (Keep up the good work, Avy!)
So it's more common then i expect… But as i see it's all class lately that have those treatment i remember one DPS pulling everything to the tank when they called they were new with the other DPS and the DPS asking for help the mentor telling them to watch guide before entering a dungeon about both theyre class and the other the dungeon they i blow off on the mentor as i choose to stop and teach both myself what skill does what for 7 minutes and yes i almost got suspended for blowing off on the DPS but fought back and copy and paste what have been told in the dungeon saving myself a suspension. Also since then i refuse to be a mentor due to alots of those situation
I’m a new tank and did my 4th dungeon only a few days ago. It hits a bit close to home knowing a tweet like that could have been made about me. Thankfully my party was nice and our healer was very helpful. However, tweets like that makes me feel like I should try to tank with my FC instead of randos on the roulette.
Even as a lvl 70ish DPS, I’m an MMO noob, and tanking is very out of my comfort zone.
By being a vet or being an omni-role player at some point you see other people's mistakes. Sure, give tips, pointers or communicate if you don't feel right about their gameplay, but dont be an ass about it. Plain and simple.
Beginner tanks gonna take it slow, leak enemies, forget their mits but its okay. It's how it is. Lashing out at them is just pure hypocrisy, we can not say we had a flawless rotation, gameplay, an infinite knowledge on mechanics by the time we hopped in Sastasha
or any dungeonfor the first time. We got tools and abilities to work around it, so… no point letting them sleep. If it happens, as I said, its just a matter of having common sense and being a decent person and help the tank.Altough it's always a good thing to be honest about small pulls right away and say you're still learning the basics, people tend to be way more forgiving that way. Alternatively, reassuring your tank is also a good thing so they can try to pull some big, nasty wall to walls
If they dont want to try, let it go, aint worth the troubleHonestly I interpreted the tweet as "why do I KEEP getting baby tanks" as being upset at the quantity of the issue, rather than the issue itself. Which is a reasonable thing to be upset about if it KEEPS happening. I do know the person who tweeted it, and felt like it was more likely that it was the case. But most other people commonly just assume their worst interpretation of what someone said and won't take any other interpretation as a possibility. Which is why I don't take anything in the twitter comments seriously.
Whatever it was in XIV or a different mmo just remember that we have all been that beginner that is trying to figure things out at some point. The only way to practice tanking is to go into content and do your best to learn along the way.
Thank you for making this video!
But the recent drama I've seen on Twitter (I admit, getting on Twitter was a mistake…) wasn't about complaining about new tanks… it's about the common phrase "If you pull, you tank"…which I think is just as idiotic a sentiment. If only people would talk to each other more instead of throwing expectations around all the time!
The game is SOCIALLY BASED.
It doesn't hurt. To ask. The healer. Before you start a dungeon.
"hey you mind big or small pulls?"
Communicate. People. Communicate.
A huge portion of that new player influx are refugees from WoW, and as a 16 year WoW veteran I can guarantee that these people are Grade A certified cunts. It's not entirely their fault though. They had the misfortune of playing a shit game. It changes you. For the worse. I wanted to get away from that. That's why I chose a new home in FFXIV. Unfortunately, a flood of WoW cunts had the same idea . . .
As someone who started playing only about a month ago one of my biggest fears was older players getting annoyed that I wasn’t familiar was dungeon, trial and raid mechanics. But I was pleased to discover that overall as long as I mentioned that I was running something for the first time at the start of the duty the other players were generally ok with any mistakes I made and helped to call out phases where they could. Granted this was as a DPS not tank or healer but it does give me hope that when I do eventually try those rolls out the majority of players will be at the very least understanding of some mistakes
I'm a tank who still shows as a sprout. When I do dungeons i let the healer set the pace. If no Comms I'll try and pull big, but if the healer struggles I'll slow down. If we wipe I'll apologise to the healer and pull less unless they say not to.
DPS don't get to dictate the speed at all nor do they get to complain.
As a DPS main, I honestly don't get frustrated with small pulls. IMO as DPS I'm just kinda along for the ride, the Tank gets to pull what they're comfortable with and the healer keeps them alive. Everyone's doing their jobs, no complaints.
What I DO get frustrated with are Tanks that don't know how to tank. Be it forgetting to put on their tank stance and flipping out when you remind them to or absolutely refusing to AoE to hold a mob group's attention. Granted: these are very rare occurrences in my experience so overall I don't have an issue with newbie Tanks. That said, however, early on when I first started playing (shortly before the launch of ShB) I did get into a series of bad runs due to bad Tanks. It culminated in a Haukke Manor run in which we wiped to the first pull 4 times because the Tank had absolutely no idea what they were doing. Didn't AoE so when the DPS opened up all but the mob the tank was fighting would peel off and start hitting the DPS. Tank never bothered to try to get control of those mobs so they'd rip the squishies to bits.
At that point I says to myself, I says: "Tanking CANNOT be that difficult." I said this as someone who had never played Tank in an MMO before, but damnit it was time to give it a shot. So I took up GLD/PAL and went at it. Come to find out that sure enough: Tanking isn't that difficult. Bare minimum for success was to pop your tank stance on, run in, and start spamming Flash (back when that was a thing). Annnnd yeah, I held all the aggro all the time and runs went perfectly smooth.
All this to say that I can understand the sentiment that Mr. "WHY DO I ALWAYS GET SPROUT TANKS?!" was displaying, but I would never have a full-on rage-fit regarding anything other players were doing (or not doing). I would much rather have a noob Tank taking the slow-and-steady approach correctly than a noob Tank biting off more than they can chew and causing wipes. Not gonna lie: it does make me "uuuugh" a bit when the Tank does small pulls, but I don't get triggered by small pulls.
I do agree with the sentiment of the video: rather than throwing a tantrum like a 4 year old that didn't get a toy at the store when you see a noob Tank it's much better for EVERYONE if you instead offer them polite pointers to improve their play. Don't come off as condescending. I find that 99% of the time if I offer friendly advice to another player it is well received. Since tone doesn't convey through text I almost always end my advice with a " 😀 " or some other positive emojii to show that I'm not upset and just trying to help.
Not gonna lie way back in 2.0 i didn't know a thing about tanking and back then you could put any job gear on being it be within D.O.W jobs i got roasted so hard in a CT raid because i had dps gear instead of normal tank gear after that i practiced my ass off now offers for me being a tank won't stop
I take long breaks with this game (been playing since before HW came out) and as someone who has been a tank main since day 1, it takes me like 3 months to get past tank anxiety for me to tank normally again. This all happened because one ninja started insulting me on my first anti tower run years ago. Sometimes people's attitudes can go a long way.
My take is that everyone should be kind and patient towards one another. This includes veteran players being patient with newer players AND newer players being willing to learn and listen to advice. Common courtesy is always a two-way street, you gotta give and take. I’ve seen a lot of great things when positive constructive feedback is given and taken. But I’ve also seen what happens when good advice falls on deaf ears and also when bravado overtakes humility.
Kindness begets kindness. And if it doesn’t? F*ck it and move on. Don’t let 15 minutes of toxicity ruin your whole day!
I’ve been playing this game since 2014 and I’m up to date on my original character but I started a new character as a tank on a different server to get help from people who’ve beat certain content that I’ve skipped over in the past 😂
You gotta be some kind of special to complain about new players leveling in the leveling roulette.
i'm new to the game and my pet peeve is people telling me what to do and how to do it, like for example someone told me i should be leveling up all the crafters in the game to make a buttload of gil, or that as a summoner i should glamour my carbuncle, or the classic that i should just focus on msq and not sidequest so much and get "distracted" by other content, and i'm nice so i thank them for the advice but then i notice veterans getting really pushy if i don't go and do what they suggested and they keep repeating the info to me… just let me play how i like to play xD
also i ran into some people that started to rant about how some classes in the game are "braindead" after i mentioned the classes i'm interested in and they said that people that play them are too dumb to play more complex classes… i quickly excused myself to dodge that bullet xD
Fully agree, but there's also bad sprouts, not trying to be a contrarian, I've seen sprout yelling at my husband for telling them to use tank stance so the dungeon could progress as intended, it was friendly advice but he was called "an elitist f***", context matters of course, but at the end of the day, be kind to sprouts.
My fiancé recently reached level 90 as a gunbreaker, and immediately had some incredibly rude people in one of her daily roulettes. I felt really bad for her because it nearly put her off tanking entirely, but I jumped into the game and joined her group as a healer, and we ran the dungeon again so that I could help build her confidence back up.
I wish people would be more considerate of what they say. Sometimes a few mean words can have a lasting negative impact on someone's experience with the game, and that's not okay. Let's help each other, not drag each other down. 🤝
ngl if u dont teach them how to do it , they will never learn , i perffer to walll to wall pull everytiem and die sometimes but thats how u learn and improve
As a Healer main I stay behind the Tank always at whatever pace they may be. I don't try to pull extra for them or give them advice other than tank stance.
I let them lead the dungeon and if a dps tries to go pull other groups cause they are impatient – I let that dps die. So they know their place and let newer players grow at their own pace.
As someone who started on and fit very well in the blitz dungeon meta and researched how to play their jobs well even at first runs I must say one thing:
NOT EVERYONE IS INSANE ENOUGH TO CONSTANTLY LOOK UP GUIDES TO EVERYTHING
I go for top performance because it's what I find fun, not everyone does, and it's best that I spam Art of War as 90% of my casts than I stress out the tank that isn't ready to run through a big story moment at a breakneck pace
You want people playing better? You give them the room to perform with a clear mind, maybe with a tip or two if it even becomes necessary. You can control your own comfort level but for other players you can only let them work in theirs
I was pretty mad the other day there was a guy in our party for a instance it was a more end gameish instance from EW put one of the dps was like SERIOUSLY YOUR GONNA DO SMALL PULLS AND YOUR BASICLY 90… he said that like 3 min into the run like 2 more pulls later he was like I DONT HAVE TIME FOR THIS and just quit out of the instance.
Been Tanking in MMO's since 2004 fulltime and started in that other MMO, yeah that one. When i picked up FF14 back in 2019 i started out as a PLD and tanked for two years straight. While i still do tank in the game these days, i mostly just chill and play a BLM to just relax and chill. Whenever i see a sprout, i give them all the leeway i can in them learning how to do their role. Because I know intimately what it has been like after almost 20 years playing the game as one. Tanking can be fun, but it does have a certain kind of stress that goes with it that is different to playing the other classes. I never have any issue with a sprout taking the time to learn of it in party.
lol
I remember when i came back into the game, when post endwalker came out I was being kicked out of dungeons because I was rusty and coming back to the game after long break. It makes me sad that people even in the end-game are toxic towards people.. 🙁