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https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/473632-Endgame-gearing-in-FFXIV
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Totally agree with your points on speed stats Haps. As a Red Mage/Summoner player right now… nothing makes me more sad than seeing Spell Speed on a new piece of i630 gear. It's ironic that Red Mage is the job that wants spell speed the LEAST because the faster cast doesn't help you get extra spells in, and it can cause clipping when too high where you can start casting a second spell before dual cast procs onto your status bar… meaning you can outpace your own major job feature. I remember early on with RDM, I was raiding with an RDM in a PUG that had Spell speed melded, and I would start a cast at the same time as them, their first cast would finish a fraction of a second before mine, and the dual cast happened at exactly the same time… and then the next cast would start right at the same time… Ultimately, from day 1, spell speed was worthless to Red Mage as Dual Cast's interaction with ability recasts equalized it against spell speed, and detracting from more useful stats. But I absolutely agree… the speed stats should be dropped. I don't even care if it's replaced.
Coming from a long time wow raider making speed good is going to take a lot of work in changing the game engine since it seems like XIV has the same issue older WoW had with things like dots not being affected by haste and the like.
It would be cool is skill/spell speed affected some of your jobs cooldowns and mastery is a fun stat when its interesting like for some specs in WoW.
Tbh after the stat squish crit damage should have been removed from crit scaling, combining the two into one stat is always going to make it too strong.
I mean, this is only a raider problem, and then, only the hardest of the hardcore. The casual player can do as he pleases just fine with crafted sets or older tome sets, even. I mean, I get told every single time gear is mentioned that casual players don’t need any better gear for the content they do.
i like the idea of having an even further enhancement on crafted gear, have it require tomestones through rain and you also need the new material added in a given patch
Acquiring BiS gear is only a part of the problem here. The biggest problem, imo, is that every raid tier becomes irrelevant as soon as the next tier drops. Everything in the game retrains at least some of it's relevancy besides Savage raids. Not only does this waste dev time and company money, but it makes it more frustrating for people to join the savage scene.
I like all the roles, and I like playing them all. Which means I basically have to choose which one of the four roles (I include support as a role in this), and then get bored to tears eventually by playing only that one for a couple of months. Or maybe it's burnout. Either or. Regardless, I would love to have a better way to get gear so I'm not stuck in one role.
my biggest hate of the gearing system. If you dont get good rolls. It takes 4 weeks for one accessory this is an unacceptable amount of time for 1 item
I definitely agree on most things, specially sub stats and I'd expand it on main stats too. I know comparing FF to other MMOs is difficult, but in the one case I'll do it anyways.
– Weekly cap: we all know the cap is dumb and we all know end game raiders ended just having alts. We not only ended spending twice or more time farming weekly tomes with alts but also getting another character to end game and lvling up a class we probably already maxed on our main. So much for a game that lets you play all classes in one character.
– In FF I mainly play Tanks. Years playing and I dislike how tanks don't have to consider tank stats. In other games you had your base gear, but without adjustments to substats you would still get destroyed by an end game boss unless you had a top tier healer or you were really skilled tank. In FF you have the base gear for the tier, your CDs, and that's all you need. There is no relevant stat, buff or effect linked to reward tanking more or better so tanks just focus on damage. There's a whole topic about min-maxers and griefing here, but I don't think deleting a core part of a job is the solution. While I'm on this I'll say healers have a similar problem: there is no relevant gain linked to healing aside from keeping the group alive, so healers don't want to heal and would rather focus on damage and let's be honest, greedy healers not wanting to heal is already a griefing problem.
– Skill/Spell speed: The comparison to accuracy is spot on. Speed was a huge stat for DPS in most games I've played, it heavily affected their damage and sometimes they'd hit twice or thrice as fast while still hitting hard. In FF you want speed to line up your buff window, and every other aspect is undesired and feels unrewarding. FF has one of the most restrictive combat systems I've seen due to how numbed down it is. I love the game but the combat is straight up bad.
How about we get a merchant where we can trade BiS pieces into other BiS pieces? For example I finish my Tank BiS but I decided to play a DPS/Healer for the next ultimate so I can trade my BiS gear from my Tank into DPS/Healer related BiS. 630 ilvl DRK Weapon -> 630 ilvl Sage Weapon. Same for every other Savage Raid Gear piece and Tomestone Gear.
Only thing is that if you have for example a 630 ilvl Piece from the Savage Tier, for example Head, but the BiS piece for the role you wanna switch into uses the Tomestone Head. Then you can't trade, because it would be abused (buying Tome Body Piece and upgrade it -> trade for savage Body piece which means you don't have to kill the last boss).
Another downside is, that you would be "BiS" for literally every job instantly, after buying the whole tomestone gear onece + received at least one chest for every gear piece from savage -> resulting in less and less player will play the Savage Raid overtime. Also PF might become weird, because people will join with BiS gear with a class that they probably dont know how to play; tho you could also argue that with BiS they can allow themself more mistakes and still be able to clear.
Maybe you can make it work with some more restrictions to it to counterbalance the negatives. Just a thought that came to mind. Not the best solution but an option.
One of the reasons I stopped leveling every job to cap was it was never worth playing them because there ilvl will always be lower than your main.
What is the point of having 14 different jobs is it now at cap if only one can be geared effectively. So I would just level one and shrug go play something else till more gear comes out for main
As someone who came in from other communities, games like Destiny have PVP and exploration, special quests and relics included in end-tier gearing. Not as "on first step the relic is better than hard core raid gear" but "this has different stats, perks, options". Week 1 raiding in Destiny 1 + 2 will feature people in myriad unmatching armor because the option to spread out and try different pieces of the content spread meant you could gear up to raid-level and allowed rapid iteration on gear optimization. It also meant the funnel to spend currency didnt exist as strongly, and people were allowed within certain reason to run whatever felt fun instead of "the One True Correct Gear Set".
This would also give space for other substat criteria, like critsack stats or giving doubledip substats (like a double crit piece with 0 in other substats). This would also give options for changing tenacity/piety and making them substantial, and increasing their lean on the impact of substats in general.
Bring back the pink tier gear from ARR, slap a new name on it and allow it to have experimental substats or ways of obtaining.
To be fair, i think ff14 has enough jobs now and the devs should spend sometime overhauling max cap progress so that if you cap on one job you can work towards another. Ideally a tombstone cap for each job would be the best but that would be a logistic nightmare on the servers.
Maybe it is time to scrap the tombstones and make a more individual job oriented progression system?
At the end of the day this game was advertised as one character all jobs game and now it is you can level all jobs but only one will be any good this patch.
i think the idea is even though you're locked to one job (per cycle) when doing raids, you can use other jobs when playing other contents like roulettes, 24-man, V&C. You dont need BiS for those.
How do you get gear?
You get tomestones, then you get tomestones, and then you get tokens.
What about last patch?
Same thing.
What about next patch?
Same thing.
…..Does the gear change?
The numbers get bigger.
I think we might have a stagnation problem here. The hamster wheel is too powerful! It feels soulless. It might respect your time (kinda) but that doesn’t make it good. Gearing is not exciting, it’s a chore.
So who is that Sfia and why post that now. That system gear been ages before in the game. I suppose i need some attention?
Feelings of despair, when you want to switch main mid tier.
Materia should affect and interact with your abilities much more, instead of just being a flat increase.
If we remake the system and add Mrhappy's idea about Mastery but maby just calling it Technique instead.
If you have the physical DPS materia:
Strength (increases damage and crit damage)
Technique (increases potency and affects resources)
Accuracy (increases direct hit and critical hit)
Speed (decreases cooldown and global cooldown).
An example for three Samurai abilities could be something like this:
Hakaze, straight forward ability with no extra potency from positionals, no extra buff, grants normal kenki.
Should be affected by Strength and Accuracy the most, not so much Technique or Speed.
A weighting could then be defined as such: Str:Tech:Acc:Spd = 1.5:1:1.5:1
Jinpu, straight forward ability with no extra potency from positionals, grants a dmg buff, grants normal kenki.
Should be affected by Strength and Accuracy the most, alittle more from Technique as it can affect the dmg buff by increasing the dmg buff % and the duration, not so much from Speed.
Technique could potentially increase the the dmg buff % and the duration, but not so much as it's most affected by Strength and Accuracy.
A weighting could then be defined as such: Str:Tech:Acc:Spd = 1.5:1.2:1.5:1
Gekko, gains extra potency if performed from rear position, no extra buff, grants more than normal kenki.
Should be affected by Technique and Accuracy the most, alittle more from Strength, not so much from Speed.
Technique could potentially increase combo potency and the kenki acquired.
A weight could then be defined as such: Str:Tech:Acc:Spd = 1.2:1.5:1.5:1
Hissatsu: Shinten, straight forward ability based on speed and accuracy, no extra potency from positionals, grants no buff, grants no kenki.
Should be affected by Accuracy and Speed the most, not so much from Strength and Technique.
Technique could potentially decrease the kenki cost, but since it's more based on speed and accuracy, not so much.
A weight could then be defined as such: Str:Tech:Acc:Spd = 1:1:1.5:1.5
Third Eye, defensive ability that reduces damage of next hit by 10% and gains kenki if hit during the 4s.
Should be affected by Technique the most, not so much from Speed and not affected by Strength or Accuracy.
Technique could potentially affect the damage reduction, the duration of the buff and the kenki returned from being hit.
A weight could then be defined as such: Str:Tech:Acc:Spd = 0:1.5:0:1
If you tie materia up against your abilities, you can diversify your playing style abit more.
Fights should also make DPS use all of their abilities as well, so they not only rely on their strength and accuracy materia to perform well.
Some substat ideas:
Mastery- Increase the amount of job meter gained by X.
Efficacy- Your cooldowns increase your damage by an additional X.X%
Strategy- Your cooldowns that affect all party members increase by X.X%
Intensity- Your powerful hits (Crit, DH, Major Damage ability) do X% more damage.
All easy to implement, all variable for different jobs, all simple to understand.
One thing I'd really appreciate is a way to get BiS stuff solo. Due to my varied schedule, I straight-up CANNOT be in a static and anyone who has tried to prog savage knows that it is like pulling your own fingernails out a lot of the time. Even if it was limited and difficult, a way to get up to date on my own would be very much appreciated.
The last time I was excited to get a piece of gear in FFXIV was in ARR. And since getting stronger and getting better gear is perhaps the largest motivating factor for me in RPGs it has also become the largest factor in my waning interest in the game. I have collected so many tomestones that I'd be perfectly happy if I never saw another tomestone ever again. And let's not get started how boring the gear itself is – gear needs more than just changing substats and melds to be interesting.
And these are points I tried to rise back in Heavensward only to be shut down by the XIV defence force. It was in my opinion pretty terrible how they raised the level cap yet the progression in the new level cap was exactly the same as last, meaning you do the exact same things but you have less of those things to do, since the content in the old level cap had become irrelevant in terms of gear progression. Hopefully this topic finally gets some wind in its sails because the gearing has absolutely been an overlooked issue for a long time, it hasn't become stale only recently.
Thought I wasn't going to agree, but this seems like a very well thought out post.
Ya gotta be careful critiquing something like this with YoshiP and the devs. As if their is a problem that exists due to player choice in game-play or the like then they normally (rather then fix it somehow) remove it and replace it with something simpler and more boring. Don't believe me? Well, here is a list with some salt from me:
Stat allocation
(players were complaining about stat choices being sub optimal and bring down clear time as well as just flaming and being toxic to each other)
Cleric stance
(first they removed the INT and MND switch which is probably fair, and then turned it into a DPS boost, then they removed it entirely because players would be dicks to healers who would use it "heal more! Don't be a broil mage!")
Astrologian's Card buffs
(Removed the whole thing and now it's just DPS boost all the time no real thought goes into it once you learn that purple boarder cards go to ranges and blue border cards go to melee)
DRK's ability to drop tank stance to get better DPS
(just in general they didn't like players using it for better DPS even tho it was perfectly fine as long as the tank put it back up when pulling, when people complained they removed it)
Selen and Eso's Cool downs
(lobotimized because people thought Selen couldn't heal when she could she just didn't have a full a party regen and instead had a DPS buff and full party cleanse (ironically this made some older content more difficult as some bosses used an AoE cleanse-able doom, but hey, since where were healers allowed to have nice thing right?!)
Materia main stats
(just genreally removed because players bickered about which states were "optimal")
TP/MP and bard buffs
(because ranged physical aren't allowed to have nice things either… apparently)
The absurd ilvl request has always turned me off savage content.
Not that I'm especially into high end game stuff anyway but I thought about trying them and immediately regretted.
I mean, I get it that if you have bette gear it will go faster but if the content was designed to be doable at a certain lvl them why make it mandatory to be above it ? And not only that but as you mentioned you also need to have the correct melds. And last but not least, most of the time they want you to watch guides before trying to join, I mean come on… Are player so thick that they can't figure out strats by themselves? They need someone else to hand it to them ?
Anyway, back to the topic, I do agree that the game kinda locks you into one role per patch witch can be annoying and some kind of change would be welcome so we can gear up other jobs a but faster.
Hopefully they just remove spell and skill speed in the next expansion. It's gotta happen sometime, the GCD can't just keep going lower and lower and eventually the less competent players are gonna crack.
It was just a very silly thing to put in the game, knowing it's going to have to go, one day.
I agree with him, when it comes to tomes, gearing 90s sucks
Regarding this argument, have people not considered creating true alts as in a separate character with different lock-outs?
I feel that the current loot cycle is passable in terms of progression over a months long raid tier (at least for one job).
People have attained BiS within a few weeks. Making progression faster will just hasten the content drought – especially for those among them who only main one role.
Regardless, I do fully agree with the notion that gearing is wholly unexciting with only slight changes in arbitrary numbers.
I would love to see other methods of gearing just from the side of wanting to freaking dye glams! I don't even need it to be BiS just let me upgrade to dyable or something.
On the side of tomes, I'm so sick of capping tuesday with no concious effort and still not being able to buy have the stuff.
My little no-raider piece of mind on this issues:
Im a bit "confused" on the "rework" for TAN class, becouse yes, now Im a DPS-Tank 😀 and its nice, but I feel like TANK lost ther tankiness and now are juggernouts -> BIG DMG + lots of HP. So stats like tenacity sound nice, but when you ask people they just say "dont, not worth the effort, just go CRIT/DET" 😀
I like playing tanks, becouse they dont die in two hits like some DPS, but today everything is about damge, everything, feels a bit…one sided (evet becouse most player want to do BIG ** DPS becouse it feeeeeeeeeeeeels gooooooooooooood…).
So adressing a bit of the sub-stats is a good idea. I too like to play multiple classes (one tan, one healer and on melle DPS/ one ranged DPS from all 18 jobs we have…) and gearing and melding stats is a nightmare for me. Im not a hard raider, and have less time becouse of my work….but still, im a FFXIV player.
I’ve been playing ff14 since launch & while I do enjoy the game I do feel the game is massively lacking any meaningful loot to aim for. The weekly tombs grind is so boring & slow, I think for starters they should hire a team of say 20 artists & have them on retainer. Get each to design 10-20 different job outfits for each job in the game & maybe weapons too.
The gear doesn’t have to have stats (purely glamour) you could obtain it from doing content like criterion dungeons. I would love more amazing looking glamour to choose from & have fun challenging ways to obtain it.
Just as an example, there are only a few armour sets that actually look like ninja gear & they’re usually the job gear for each expansion. So every ninja either looks the same or doesn’t even look like a ninja.
For gearing we accept a mix of tome gear gear and raid gear at that point, which is an issue. Casuals run memo gear, so they constantly play at a wrong gcd etc. I get that they do that to avoid differences. But memo set should work alone, and raid gear be an upgrade. Plus what is so dumb about memos is that you gear your main, might buy a few extra things to have temporary dmg increase, but you are setting yourself late to gear your other jobs. Plus it feels dumb to want to buy the chest, that nobody uses, just to have it for glam.